361–370 of 392 posts
What's sexist about the "that's what she said" jokes? Maybe it's because these jokes never caught on where I live (UK), but I don't understand why would anyone be offended by that. Any clues? I'd ask my American coworker but she's not in the office.
The classic example is having the woman get coffee. Others recently discussed include having the woman take notes or organize a potluck. Related is calling attention to a woman's body in a way that treats her as a sex object.
The "that's what she said" joke could be seen as an example of that women-are-for-sexy-times error. Note that in The Office (the American version at least), the person who makes that joke is Michael, the clueless and offensive boss. That's not an accident.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
See, that link should be nearer the top of this thread. That's food for thought right there. On the other hand, "The only people trying to argue "lighten up" are anti-feminists" is a nasty false generalisation -- it ignores apath-feminists (damn, that doesn't work nearly as well as 'apatheists'); those who are thinking "can't we all just get along?", with absolutely no motive to stymie feminism; those who've never do…
The trouble is that the default setting, the do-nothing, don't-care follow-the-norm setting, is anti-feminist. It's the "double standard" in dating. It's women as decoration. It's compulsory sexuality. It's misogynist porn. And, as here, it's sexist jokes. This is why feminism says we live in a patriarchy still.
I think it boils down to the technical meaning in feminist theory of 'anti-feminist' (anything that holds back feminism) not really matching up with what the layperson seeing the word for the first time would take it to mean -- 'anti-feminist' intuitively sounds like it only applies to active, concious opposition to the ideals of feminism; misogyny, denial of female autonomy, Rush Limbaugh, that kinda thing. Laypeople may not think to also consider apathy that unwittingly enables the sexist status quo as part of anti-feminism.
I'm definitely not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying you risk alienating your target audience by... well, to be flippant, by using big fancy words they may not understand ;)
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yet another common trope in gender discussions is this idea that people shouldn't complain about sexism because there are more important things to worry about. We are complex machines that are capable of worrying about multiple cultural issues at a time. This is an issue. If there are things you'd rather us focus on, write a blog post, start a thread, make something. Don't try and derail this one, because it's releva…
>Yet another common trope in gender discussions is this idea that people shouldn't complain about sexism because there are more important things to worry about. Haven't thought of it that way, but sounds like a reasonable general guideline: don't worry about minor things when there are important things that mess with your life and your society. Oh, and I see what you did there --by adding "sexism"--, whereas my comme…
Did you miss all the recent posts from women in IT who say they love their jobs but have been forced out because of sexism etc?
Earlier quoted context omitted.
When a child who has all the toys is told they have to share, some children will throw a hissy fit. This is an apt metaphore for a "men's rights" movement which rares it's head when people talking about giving women as much power as men.
Men are as likely to be raped, but their (prison) rapes are considered funny in our society, whereas female rapes are considered a grave crime. Men are generally considered more disposable in dangerous situations ("let the women and children go"). Stereotypes and gender roles regarding men are much more rigid, and challenging them has much less cultural buy-in than challenging gender roles with women. Men are much mo…
There are a lot of strict gender roles for men, men are laughed at if they want to wear a dress, but a woman can wear a trousers without any problem. Being the receptive sexual partner is viewed as OK for women, but shameful or wrong for men. It's not fair and it's not right.
There are a lot of issues at play. There are a lot of things wrong with gender, and there's people who've been fighting for gender equality for a long time. We're all on the same side here.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Hi! Startup cofounder here. Working in and with startups since Web 0.8. I see you're a student, so I want to take the time to be clear: Suppose you worked at my startup. Suppose further that you suggested to one of your colleagues, as you did now, that they quit because they weren't inclined to put up with what they saw as a hostile work environment. You know who would be gone? You. Startups are a team sport. We don'…
I see that I need to update my bio... The reason I am so pissed is that I work in a company where we do things and make jokes that would get you kicked out the door in most suit companies and everybody enjoys it -- including the girls (who are often the best) -- and yes there is the guy who doesn't find it funny to change his screen, so we don't. To him. If he finds it obnoxious that we make those jokes with others,…
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> He expresses an opinion that is contrary to what other people are saying and he gets down-voted into oblivion. He's being downvoted not because of his opinion, but because of the way he chose to present it. And, he's whining about downvotes. Read what he's writing. It's downright rude. > I'll be down-voted myself anyway for even daring to defend someone’s right to express their opinion however. No, and suggesting s…
> Read what he's writing. It's downright rude. Can you point to the rude parts? Or is that too much to ask? > Learn to discuss matters like an adult, and you won't have this issue. Actually most of the discussion on the issue is like that of touchy 20 year olds. Adults dont "down-vote" on disagreement.
Any of his comments in this thread are rude. Practically each on seethed with immaturity and rudeness for the other people in the thread. Any particular part? Yeah, the parts where he was commenting.
Rude is obviously subjective, but tied to social norms. It's like me calling a woman a "fucking bitch" is rude based on social norms, not because "fucking bitch" itself is rude. So, just consider that before you try to suggest that "what he said was clearly not rude or immature." We can obviously go back and forth all day long and get no where.
> Actually most of the discussion on the issue is like that of touchy 20 year olds. Adults dont "down-vote" on disagreement.
Well, I'm fairly confused now. First, I'm under the impression that a 20-year old is an adult. Secondly, I agree that adults don't down-vote on disagreement. I'm confused because if most of the discussion is like that of adults, and adults don't down-vote on mere disagreement, what's the issue? I sincerely think you were making a mountain out of a mole hill.
Yes, there will be people who down-vote because they disagree. There are also people, like me, who will see that and correct it should we feel the down-votes are not necessary, even if we disagree. It's self correcting that way. Hell, people up-vote even when they do disagree, if only because the comment is thoughtful.
I think the issue isn't people disagreeing on a subject. I think it's people disagreeing on what constitutes having a mature conversation. You obviously disagree with others' assessments.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> He expresses an opinion that is contrary to what other people are saying and he gets down-voted into oblivion. He's being downvoted not because of his opinion, but because of the way he chose to present it. And, he's whining about downvotes. Read what he's writing. It's downright rude. > I'll be down-voted myself anyway for even daring to defend someone’s right to express their opinion however. No, and suggesting s…
> Read what he's writing. It's downright rude. Can you point to the rude parts? Or is that too much to ask? > Learn to discuss matters like an adult, and you won't have this issue. Actually most of the discussion on the issue is like that of touchy 20 year olds. Adults dont "down-vote" on disagreement.
So, you accuse the other guy of being rude, but when asked to give a specific example, you resort to platitudes and generalities. Thanks for the mature contribution.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
>Some people come to a sexism discussion like fundies come to an evolution discussion. The point isn't to learn something and perhaps come away with a new view. Noticed how you equate the issue of sexism with evolution theory? To imply, of course, that those that happen to disagree about the importance of sexism are NUTS, and that the importance of sexism in keeping women away from IT is as indisputable as a scientif…
I am indeed saying that you are acting like a nutjob. Well recognized. And nice work confirming that with a rambling 25-paragraph reply.
Let's see: another ad-hominen insult, and still no specifics or counterarguments. Oh, and you managed to miss all of my arguments. And the problem is the length of my reply.
Yes, I can see how I am the nutjob for expressing an unpopular opinion (with arguments), and not being satisfied with just being called names for it. Nothing like the internet to give so considering, well spoken, and intellectually stimulating discussion partners such as you.
Since you took the liberty of calling me a nutjob, may I add an ad-hominen too? You are acting like an idiotic, PC, middle class American white man-boy. I'd take "nutjob" any day...