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Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

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Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#21

Post by Ferret7446 »

mcv wrote: post #4
zem wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

just to be pedantic, the valve devs are absolutely open source contributors, they just happen to be paid to do it.

It's great that Valve is willing to pay them for it. It's a bit sad that such capital investment from a commercial party is necessary, but I can live with that. As someone who has just switched to Linux gaming, I've got to say it's working great. Maybe it's slightly less stable, but not by much, and performance is excellent.

That's how reality works. In order to do something, resources must be invested. In order for resources to be invested, people must perceive value in the thing they are investing in.

In order to do something big, many people must invest many resources, and they would only do so if they all see great value in the thing.

In order to have resources to invest, all of the people must have excess resources that they have generated from previous endeavors.

Remember, capitalism is merely the most efficient system we have for assigning limited resources across society.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#22

Post by arp242 »

noirscape wrote: post #20
arp242 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Projects like WINE tried, but there's just not enough you can do only with open-source contributors, with such a massive undertaking. Proton is basically just Wine, right? Aside from that CodeWeavers has been doing commercial Wine development for a long time. Almost all of Wine already existed before Valve got involved. Yes, they help out too, and that's great, but people are hugely over-crediting Valve (and here,…

Proton is Wine with some extra patches; the main project has some pretty hefty requirements in terms of coding standards to reduce possible regressions, which means that on the whole it can be pretty slow to get compatibility. Gaming is just one subsection of the Win32 API that doesn't touch on all parts of said API. Proton basically has a bunch of extra patches that might introduce a regression in upstream Wine but…

> I'm pretty sure Codeweavers has the same model although I don't think they upstream patches nearly as much?

According to Wikipedia "all changes made to the Wine source code are covered by the LGPL and publicly available", but I don't really know from first-hand experience.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#23

Post by JodieBenitez »

arp242 wrote: post #14
dininski wrote: post #2

It's good to see an assumption I had, be validated. The assumption was that Linux would struggle to make a dent in the desktop market until it managed to make a tempting proposition for gamers. Projects like WINE tried, but there's just not enough you can do only with open-source contributors, with such a massive undertaking. I'm happy that a big company is finally backing this effort and with nvidia open-sourcing th…

> Projects like WINE tried, but there's just not enough you can do only with open-source contributors, with such a massive undertaking. Proton is basically just Wine, right? Aside from that CodeWeavers has been doing commercial Wine development for a long time. Almost all of Wine already existed before Valve got involved. Yes, they help out too, and that's great, but people are hugely over-crediting Valve (and here,…

> Proton is basically just Wine, right?

That's the thing with desktop linux: almost everything already exists. But there's always an extra mile to go. Sometimes it's tiny bugs, sometimes it's bad default settings, sometimes it's questionnable UI... all things that may not be a problem for tweakers but will stop people that want a good out-of-the-box experience. I'm glad commercial companies go that extra mile.

But yes, props to wine devs. Well deserved.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#24

Post by arp242 »

4death4 wrote: post #17
arp242 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Projects like WINE tried, but there's just not enough you can do only with open-source contributors, with such a massive undertaking. Proton is basically just Wine, right? Aside from that CodeWeavers has been doing commercial Wine development for a long time. Almost all of Wine already existed before Valve got involved. Yes, they help out too, and that's great, but people are hugely over-crediting Valve (and here,…

According to the article, Steam OS also uses two Direct 3D to Vulkan translation libraries. That’s obviously a big part of running a game.

Neither are written by Valve.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#25

Post by 4death4 »

arp242 wrote: post #24
4death4 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to the article, Steam OS also uses two Direct 3D to Vulkan translation libraries. That’s obviously a big part of running a game.

Neither are written by Valve.

Valve is a contributor, so that’s not an entirely true statement. And I was replying to your original statement that “Proton is just wine”, which again, is not true.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#26

Post by reuben364 »

zem wrote: post #7
mcv wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's great that Valve is willing to pay them for it. It's a bit sad that such capital investment from a commercial party is necessary, but I can live with that. As someone who has just switched to Linux gaming, I've got to say it's working great. Maybe it's slightly less stable, but not by much, and performance is excellent.

it was the opposite for me, I was tempted into getting the steam deck because it seemed like a fun device and an exciting new frontier for linux, and it's gotten me into gaming in a way I haven't been since college.

When I got my SteamDeck, I thought I was going to do a lot more tinkering than I did gaming. I planned on getting NixOS working on it. I ended up just playing games and having fun just using the stock install.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#27

Post by arp242 »

JodieBenitez wrote: post #23
arp242 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Projects like WINE tried, but there's just not enough you can do only with open-source contributors, with such a massive undertaking. Proton is basically just Wine, right? Aside from that CodeWeavers has been doing commercial Wine development for a long time. Almost all of Wine already existed before Valve got involved. Yes, they help out too, and that's great, but people are hugely over-crediting Valve (and here,…

> Proton is basically just Wine, right? That's the thing with desktop linux: almost everything already exists. But there's always an extra mile to go. Sometimes it's tiny bugs, sometimes it's bad default settings, sometimes it's questionnable UI... all things that may not be a problem for tweakers but will stop people that want a good out-of-the-box experience. I'm glad commercial companies go that extra mile. But ye…

The major bit from "extra mile" here being "adding a button in their proprietary vendor lock-in platform".

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#28

Post by em-bee »

arp242 wrote: post #27
JodieBenitez wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Proton is basically just Wine, right? That's the thing with desktop linux: almost everything already exists. But there's always an extra mile to go. Sometimes it's tiny bugs, sometimes it's bad default settings, sometimes it's questionnable UI... all things that may not be a problem for tweakers but will stop people that want a good out-of-the-box experience. I'm glad commercial companies go that extra mile. But ye…

The major bit from "extra mile" here being "adding a button in their proprietary vendor lock-in platform".

i didn't check but i believe the major part of the extra mile is fixing 1000s of tiny little bugs that break games. it should be possible to verify that by looking at the wine changelog. the rest is creating a smooth experience downloading and running games. smoother than any alternative (like playonlinux or lutris)

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#29

Post by arp242 »

4death4 wrote: post #25
arp242 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither are written by Valve.

Valve is a contributor, so that’s not an entirely true statement. And I was replying to your original statement that “Proton is just wine”, which again, is not true.

I never said "Proton is just wine". I said "Proton is basically just Wine". Leaving out that qualifier makes a big difference.

Re: Linux interop is maturing fast thanks to a games console

#30

Post by kibwen »

Windows is enshittifying so rapidly that I firmly believe that, if Valve really wanted to, they could eat Microsoft's lunch when it comes to the non-enterprise desktop market, which is almost exclusively gamers these days. Fortunately for Microsoft, Valve seems content to officially position and market SteamOS as just for its handheld, even though it's entirely possible to run it on other hardware.
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