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Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

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Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

everyone looking for any reason when its obviously a massive recession due to govt. spending

Even if you agree that there was a recession the US exited it a year ago. The economy has been growing since last August. This (and other layoffs) are a response to increased interest rates imposed to combat inflation. Companies don't have access to as cheap credit, so they're trying to appease shareholders by cutting costs to improve profitability. This puts the brakes on the economy and may cause a recession if it…

This specifically and undeniably is what is killing unity too. They have always run on free money, they have literally never turned a profit in the history of the company, and with the end of 0% interest rate policy the music is over.

The fact that they borrowed bigtime to buy this adtech company (hence the push for “if you use our ads, no fee increase!”) and are now deeply deeply underwater is forcing the issue, they have gone from losing $100-300m per year to losing $800m-1b per year. But, again, unity has literally never turned a profit in the history of its existence.

The same thing is happening across the industry where the end of free money is putting some boondoggles out of business, burning out the waste that has resulted from 2+ decades of unconstrained tech growth in a ZIRP environment. A correction was inevitable and healthy, excessively cheap money has all kinds of noxious effects on an economy.

The most prominent is xbox - I don't think anyone realized just how bad things have gotten for xbox but the FTC leaks are devastating, they reveal the xbox division has been on the ropes for quite a while. They have been in severe risk of being closed if they can't make gamepass numbers perform, and they've massively undershot the scenarios in which (two or three years ago) Phil Spencer said he'd close the division. It's entirely possible that Starfield is the last straw, and if they don't see a big bump in gamepass subscribers from it (which doesn't seem to have happened) they may spin off the game-studio side and kill xbox, or pivot it into a "nettop" that competes more with appletv and switch pro type hardware.

It’s also resulted in some businesses making some crazy pricing model changes and other things, out of a real or perceived need to get to profitability. The unity change will kill the business, and things like google business spinning off domain registry (you need to use a third party service to get a complete offering on google cloud?) are pound-foolish decisions that will/could have long-term negative consequences.

But the tide is going out and we’re seeing who’s swimming naked, as they say. There were a lot of businesses and projects that were only sustainable with 0% interest money, and companies are rightfully asking if this is worth it if they have to pay 7% or 8% interest. And that's exactly the type of unproductive work that needs to be burned out of the economy.

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#273
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if you agree that there was a recession the US exited it a year ago. The economy has been growing since last August. This (and other layoffs) are a response to increased interest rates imposed to combat inflation. Companies don't have access to as cheap credit, so they're trying to appease shareholders by cutting costs to improve profitability. This puts the brakes on the economy and may cause a recession if it…

This specifically and undeniably is what is killing unity too. They have always run on free money, they have literally never turned a profit in the history of the company, and with the end of 0% interest rate policy the music is over. The fact that they borrowed bigtime to buy this adtech company (hence the push for “if you use our ads, no fee increase!”) and are now deeply deeply underwater is forcing the issue, the…

the xbox stuff I wanted to give more explanation and sourcing/perspectives without bloating the above

PS5 has won the console war, Series X's hardware advantage has been subsumed by upscaling into a meaningless "runs 840p instead of 720p input res" thing that doesn't sell consoles and Sony has actually organically built studios that pump out exclusive content that does draw in customers. Microsoft has largely failed at building that, and instead tried to buy more studios to make their content exclusive (bethesda, tried to buy nintendo and activision, etc).

Microsoft has pretty explicitly pushed all their exclusives to PC as well, meaning Series S and the Gamepass are the only interesting thing they have going. And gamepass simply hasn't been doing the necessary numbers - there was a bump in 2020/2021 from COVID, when silicon shortages meant Series S was the cheapest and most available route to a diversion during the COVID disruptions, and gamepass gave you this ready library. But 2022 and 2023 have been the great Going-Outside and the numbers have gone down not up.

In the meantime Series S is also this albatross around their neck - they have a much lower hardware baseline for game compatibility, and can't really push forward to next-gen without losing those subscribers (who are probably not going to "convert" again if it requires a $700 purchase or whatever). like it or not they are trapped by series S and gamepass now, and there is no true next-gen console on the radar (unlike sony), only a refresh.

Another problem is that all those gamepass subscribers are using the "$1/mo for 5 years" crazy promo deals too. Which is another perfect example of crazy VC growth-hacking stuff that is being rightfully burned out.

the FTC leaks are absolutely devastating and reveal a company that is so on the ropes they're looking at closing the xbox division, or pivoting it to nettop style consoles and going after appletv and switch pro (docked) market, perhaps with an upscaling-based ARM console. They are drastically underperforming the scenario in which Phil Spencer said he'd pull the plug. But it sure as fuck isn't going to be running like it currently is, in another 5-10 years, unless they get a whole lot of market traction awfully fast.

I do think it's entirely possible that Starfield was their last shot - big flagship title from a big flagship studio, and if they didn't do the gamepass numbers (and they didn't) this is the final straw. MS has very explicitly avoided weighing in on a true next-gen console and maybe they pivot or kill the division off instead. And this leak is so embarrassing and reveals how much things are so on-fire internally, that the leak itself may push them over the edge too, on top of starfield underperforming this month. This is C-suite level deliberation laid bare.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tJBC9zXYQ8&t=2511s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OUPxytMLWzI

But it's stunning to see this (ostensibly) gaming pillar/institution fall apart like this... apparently they were swimming naked too. But I guess that's not surprising, their only real traction was during the XB360/PS3 era and every single other time it's been a money pit they dump cash into in hopes of being profitable next generation... everyone kinda knew it intellectually but without the scales of losses being broken out separately, it's just an abstract point. Now we know: Xbox is losing so much cash they will probably go under shortly.

(which is a great reason to prevent them from acquiring more studios, especially when the goal is obviously to take their content exclusive to combat Sony's organic exclusives. That's anticompetitive to the core.)

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#274
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a bit disappointing. As a user I just want Bandcamp to be owned by someone who gets it and leaves it alone. As far as I could tell, Epic barely touched Bandcamp. I'm unfamiliar with Songtradr but they have more incentive to integrate the core product into their services as they're in the industry and a smaller company (more need to make the acquisition work for them.) I hope it goes well.

I'm somewhat hopeful about the synergies here. Giving musicians an easy path to monetize their catalog, as well as market their availability to be commissioned by brands, is a good thing... especially when artists are being dually hammered by Spotify's deci-cents-per-stream industry baseline and live music promoters' anticompetitive behavior. That said, there are ways Songtradr could abuse their new position of trust…

Self-reply: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37696171 makes me less hopeful that they're operating in good faith...

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#275
post #257
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So that we can go back to the Steam monopoly?

I don't think Steam requires or even pays for platform-exclusive games. If your game doesn't need Steam-specific features, you can sell it on Steam and anywhere else you like. Even the DRM is entirely optional.

You can't reduce the price of the game anywhere else or Steam will kick the game out of their store.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/business_law/resources/bu....

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#276
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue that the productivity boost is mich higher for the lower end developers than for the best ones. They are best at the simple tasks in the most verbose programming languages: Easier to think of them as higher quality auto-completion. The terser the language, and more innovative the problem is, the smalle the LLM help. So if anyone gains from this, is the companies paying under-market, and therefore typically…

Maybe this is the answer to a disconnect I've noticed. A number of devs where I work have started using ChatGPT to help with their work, but it hasn't resulted in any noticeable productivity or quality gains. But the devs here are all very experienced senior-level engineers. Perhaps that's why we aren't seeing any gains?

Maybe the devs now can work fewer hours since they more productive per hour.

Otherwise you're suggesting that these senior devs are using a tool which provides no value whatsoever which seems unlikely.

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#277
post #201
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wonder also how much of a driver new programmer productivity tools like copilot and ChatGPT are factoring into this. If your top 10% productivity workers just got a 30%+ productivity boost, that means you can easily shed the bottom 20% productive workers and still be ahead of the game. I can confidently say that this factors in 0%. Layoffs were happening in the industry even before the LLM craze. And a 30% overal…

Second this. From using LLM within my daily IC workflow, its not that developers are getting a productivity boost, its that our job became more enjoyable. I didn't even realize how much frustration builds up over time while relying on google search for things such as that one obscure api method i forgot the name of. I have to dig and dig... Somehow using GPT in its place has brought a noticeable bump to my quality of…

I would imagine that if your job is more enjoyable, you're getting a productivity boost.

Unless you're suggesting that using an llm is just as efficient as not, but is somehow more fun?

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> if you made a bad judgement call resulting in these sorts of penalties, you're likely out If you’re likely to make them again and/or don’t bring enough counterbalancing value to the table. If it came out of thin air it’s performative to punish. There’s a good Lee Iacocca quote about this somewhere. > For executives Senior management and executives are the same thing in a general context. (Another is upper managemen…

"If it came out of thin air it’s performative to punish." Nothing comes out of thin air, unless you're saying the fines are bull shit. "Senior management and executives are the same thing in a general context." Depends on how big the company is. At my company senior management is at least a level below the executive level.

> unless you're saying the fines are bull shit

I’m saying not everything can be anticipated, and everything is in balance. A Board that fires everyone proximate to a fine will seal its own fate.

> At my company senior management is at least a level below the executive level

That’s middle management rebranded. It’s fine! I’ve done this! But the same way someone with a director title isn’t a director of the company, someone who reports to anyone other than the CEO is not senior management.

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#279
post #277
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Second this. From using LLM within my daily IC workflow, its not that developers are getting a productivity boost, its that our job became more enjoyable. I didn't even realize how much frustration builds up over time while relying on google search for things such as that one obscure api method i forgot the name of. I have to dig and dig... Somehow using GPT in its place has brought a noticeable bump to my quality of…

I would imagine that if your job is more enjoyable, you're getting a productivity boost. Unless you're suggesting that using an llm is just as efficient as not, but is somehow more fun?

Possibly, but why assume that developers are passing on that increased productivity without expecting a relative pay increase?

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#280
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The economy has been "about to take a nosedive" for quite some time now.

Well... How are medical prices? Education prices? Food? Energy? Savings? Rent? Housing? What about the massive layoffs? Even if you're not struggling - many others objectively are dealing with the realities of a harsh economic downturn.

Food prices and related prices have been proven for awhile now to be mostly corporations massively increasing profit margins instead of inflation.

Housing prices will continue to be an indefinite bubble due to boomer economics.

Healthcare is a disaster in this country and will never be fixed because of Citizens United.

None of this is due to the economic downturn.

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