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WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

jamesbvaughan.com

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Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#111
post #81
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at WhatsApp (until the end of 2019) on many things, including special pricing (aka zero rating); we did not work with airlines, and would not have participated in a project where messages and attachments where treated differently. That said, technically there's two pretty easy ways to do it for WhatsApp traffic, and then there's the way I suspect they're doing it... a) chat runs on different ips than a…

> WA chat is not HTTPS (or even TLS) If you don’t mind, could you expend on this? Are there specific reasons to not be using TLS?

It's based on the Noise Protocol Framework in the outermost layer, which encrypts a compressed XMPP stream. The end-to-end encryption is done within various XMPP message payloads using the Signal Protocol, which encrypts message data serialized using Protocol Buffers, with different formats depending on the message type (text, image, video, sticker, etc).

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#112
Reminds me how old and unsecure those system used to be, years ago they would perform DNS queries but block most traffic, meaning that you could get free internet by using DNS tunneling.

Same for the movies on board, if they have some apps and not just movies in front seat, you can use vlc, ffmpeg to download / watch the movie without ads / interruption.

When I was doing some digging they used a lot of Panasonic solution and open source stuff such as squid cache, apache http.

https://na.panasonic.com/ca/industries/avionics

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#113

If you travel lite with clothes in a book bag(wash clothes if extended stay)… I don't see why anyone would fly United, Southwest, American Airlines, etc VS.the budget Airlines like Spirit. Maybe if you have points with those airlines… Otherwise, save hundreds of dollars using budget airlines which the planes are newer in my experience, and never had a bad experience versus my recent bad experiences with Delta and the…

You must have buns of steel. I flew Spirit exactly once (well, twice, it was round-trip), and it was such a miserable experience I swore to never do it again. Their seats are made of concrete as far as I can tell.

For domestic flights I pretty much always sit in the window and never get up during the flight. On spirit I had to get up and walk around after about 3 hours 'cause my ass was sore. Never again.

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#115

I'm an Alaska (relatively) frequent flyer. That airline offers a free "messaging" plan, that lets you send and receive messages on apps like iMessage, Facebook Messenger and Whatsapp. Though, it somehow prevents images/attachments from coming through on those platforms. I've always wondered how this is implemented technically, and if it might be possible to setup some kind of protocol/wrapper to send data that looks…

I've also wondered why Grindr but not Tinder works on the "messaging only" plan. Someone at Alaska must have had fun with that one. Flightaware.com also works, presumably because Alaska uses Flightaware for its tracking map.

Grindr is a logistics app, Tinder is entertainment :p

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#116
post #81
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to work at WhatsApp (until the end of 2019) on many things, including special pricing (aka zero rating); we did not work with airlines, and would not have participated in a project where messages and attachments where treated differently. That said, technically there's two pretty easy ways to do it for WhatsApp traffic, and then there's the way I suspect they're doing it... a) chat runs on different ips than a…

> WA chat is not HTTPS (or even TLS) If you don’t mind, could you expend on this? Are there specific reasons to not be using TLS?

I should probably refer you to the encryption whitepaper [1], but the basics are that Chat uses the Noise Protocol rather than TLS. All things being equal, the security properties are about equivalent, however all things aren't equal. The Noise handshake is smaller than the TLS handshake, and Noise doesn't have extraneous features WhatsApp doesn't use. Additionally, at the time of Noise adoption, TLS lacked a means for 0-RTT data (now available with TLS 1.3 Early Data), which meant using TLS would have added at least one round trip; possibly two, depending on which TLS library used. [2] You can use TLS without x.509, but it's not very common; avoiding x.509 was a definite plus.

I wasn't much involved in anything on the chat channel, and I didn't do any implementation work on Noise, but I did some later prototype work with it, and if I recall correctly, it had much simpler framing than TLS as well; although maybe that was mostly TLS options getting me down --- the SNI header has 9 bytes of overhead, 5 of which are lengths, Noise didn't have anything like that as I recall. Do you really two bytes of versioning on every application data packet, like TLS has? I'm not sure you really need a type indicator byte either, context says you're sending a handshake packet initially, and then application data after that, but I'm pretty rusty on this now, so maybe there's a justification.

For users paying for internet by the byte, every byte counts. For users on networks with large delays, every round trip counts. For attachments, it's less critical (if your data access costs were high, you could configure attachments not to load) and that infrastructure was always built around http(s), so while there would have been an efficiency improvement to move that off https, it would be hard to justify the engineering time; especially post the move to FB infrastructure with its CDN that was easily configured for our attachments. OTOH, chat never ran on TLS, so adopting Noise vs adopting TLS was a choice we could consider, and we picked the best solution for us. Unfortunately, it's pretty easy to identify Noise vs TLS --- OTOH, the service IPs are already identifiable, so a little more blending on the protocol level wouldn't help much.

[1] https://www.whatsapp.com/security/WhatsApp-Security-Whitepap...

[2] Also using system TLS libraries is fraught with peril. It's fine, but not super great, for http, but using it for a custom binary protocol is going to be terrible. You'll need to debug all of the edge cases that the system https library doesn't hit, and will then have to craft workarounds that just work, even if you can't reliably identify the underlying versions because Android OEMs do weird stuff.

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. But you’re on a site called “Hacker News”. I’m not sure that there’s a more perfect topic of discussion for a site with that name.

[flagged]

I think the spirit of the comment was “here’s an interesting technical question” versus “how can I get eight bucks of free shit”.

Re: WiFi without internet on a Southwest flight

#118
post #89
post #80

It is just 8 bucks for the full service... just buy the internet bro. It is actually pretty good.

You're not understanding the point of the comment. The Flighty team did some amazing engineering work for anyone who doesn't pay.

> amazing engineering

Background updates are a built-in, supported, documented feature, widely employed by applications on the platform, and accessible to anyone that reads the two pages of documentation required to use them:

“Pushing background updates to your App — Deliver notifications that wake your app and update it in the background.”

https://developer.apple.com/documentation/usernotifications/...

edited for politeness

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