Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff • Hacker News Board

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#161

Post by pelasaco » Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 4:30 PM UTC

eigenvalue wrote: post #26

This is probably just continued post-COVID demand normalization. Basically all software and gaming got a massive bump that was obviously going to have an unsustainable component to it. But in many cases companies planned like it was totally sustainable and would continue. That’s why even super profitable companies like Microsoft and Epic are doing layoffs in 2023. The other reason of course is that they went a bit cr…

> I wonder also how much of a driver new programmer productivity tools like copilot and ChatGPT are factoring into this. If your top 10% productivity workers just got a 30%+ productivity boost, that means you can easily shed the bottom 20% productive workers and still be ahead of the game.

Probably 0%. What I heard, mostly people not performing (which is the real pandemic after COVID-19). If I'm not wrong as other companies, devs there are not "allowed" to use copilot and chatgpt fearing code plagiarism and ending up with some license violations..

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#162

Post by tqi » Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 4:31 PM UTC

boringg wrote: post #140

paxys wrote: post #60

Why are people still reading tech layoff news and trying to attribute it to specific problems at a company? Remember that Google, Meta, Microsoft, Amazon, Salesforce, Shopify etc. laid off large chunks of their workforce while collectively making hundreds of billions of dollars in profit. Companies lay off people because they can, simple as that.

Economy is about to take a nose dive if you haven't been reading the tea leaves. This is both pre-emptive for the coming downturn and a correction for the covid over hiring. Buckle up.

I'm curious what signals you're seeing? (I don't pay much attention to this so I haven't really heard anything)

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#163

Post by softfalcon » Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 4:32 PM UTC

Reticularas wrote: post #135

eigenvalue wrote: post #26

This is probably just continued post-COVID demand normalization. Basically all software and gaming got a massive bump that was obviously going to have an unsustainable component to it. But in many cases companies planned like it was totally sustainable and would continue. That’s why even super profitable companies like Microsoft and Epic are doing layoffs in 2023. The other reason of course is that they went a bit cr…

No one in game and game engine development is using ChatGPT. It doesn't even work, even if it was productive, as barely any problems the average gamedev faces on a day-to-day have been surfaced to the training data of an LLM.

Yeah, this exactly. The only person I know who is succeeding at "game dev" with ChatGPT is an older bloke I know who just began their baby steps on a pet project with Unity.

Sure, if you're still learning how to move position from x to x+1, ChatGPT can help you with those basics, but anything more than that and they start hitting me up on Discord looking for real answers.

Something as simple as how the serialization of fields in behaviour classes was too much for ChatGPT. They read what it hallucinated up, got confused, and were calling me up to explain minutes later. For those who don't know Unity, this is something you have to do daily when building new logic into game components and ChatGPT was clueless about it.

The limitations of ChatGPT as a programming aid are very very obvious and it has a long way to go before it's really useful to seasoned professionals.

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#164

Post by mulmen » Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 4:32 PM UTC

KronisLV wrote: post #141

danjac wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's about as silly a measure as number of lines of code produced.

> That's about as silly a measure as number of lines of code produced. How else would you measure how much work someone does, other than by how much tracked work that's attributed to them there is? The people using these indicators probably don't care about someone who might have fewer closed issues but instead is helping out 5 people work more efficiently, but rather about people who are constantly shipping measurab…

Measuring productivity is a fool’s errand. The reality is that performance is subjective and in a hierarchy only the whims of those above you matter.

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#165

Post by JAlexoid » Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 4:33 PM UTC

politelemon wrote: post #121

jzb wrote: post #95

From the announcement: "The company also announced that it’s divesting Bandcamp, an online audio distribution platform it acquired last year" I don't care a ton about Epic, but I love Bandcamp. It's my primary mechanism these days for discovering and acquiring music. I was puzzled when Epic bought Bandcamp, apparently they were too. They're being kicked over to Songtradr -- I hope that's a neutral to good move, but I…

I can't see it as a good thing at all. They're effectively being thrown about to yet another operating model which will have a disruptive impact on them. The new company Songtradr focuses on licensing, it's a b2b, while Bandcamp is a b2c. So it can be easy to see how they'd want to make Bandcamp more like themselves. Of course I'm being negative and cynical, apologies. I share the same fondness for Bandcamp.

I mean... Bandcamp is also licensing, all of works of art "copy sales" are just licensing agreements. B2C is just commonly a preset non-commercial license. (I believe that Bandcamp also allows you to sell a commercial license)

Let alone Bandcamp is a good source for smaller DJs to acquire tracks, which isn't a long shot for Songtradr.

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#166

Post by robertlagrant » Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 4:34 PM UTC

c7DJTLrn wrote: post #86

toyg wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meh, it's nothing to do with that, it's just a layoff round. Epic went from 2200 employees in 2020 to almost 9000 in 2023. They are now basically shedding 1 out of 6 hires they've done since 2020. That's not really about sustainability, it's just a way to drop the ones that didn't really work out.

>That's not really about sustainability, it's just a way to drop the ones that didn't really work out These layoffs are just a way for CEOs to improve "efficiency" AKA increase margins so they get a nice fat bonus - COVID overhiring has been a convenient excuse and every company has jumped on it.

It's not an excuse. They overhired.

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#167

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 4:34 PM UTC

pgeorgi wrote: post #103

pjmlp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people complain about single stores on mobile devices, and then they wish for a single one in PC games, what an irony.

There was a world before "stores", you know...

There were always stores, physical ones, or shipping.

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#168

Post by pjmlp » Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

nicolaslem wrote: post #111

pjmlp wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So people complain about single stores on mobile devices, and then they wish for a single one in PC games, what an irony.

Multiple stores is great but I wished there was only one launcher. I must have seven installed currently on my gaming PC, each needing updating every week.

Impossible without a store standard.

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#169

Post by giantg2 » Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #39

giantg2 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it can. If the executives want to hit their performance bonuses they might start axing lower revenue projects or support groups. In a higher rate environment, it's certainly possible that the decision is made to lay people off to reduce the higher cost debt that needs to be incurred or the time it will take to pay it off, even if the company is otherwise profitable.not saying that's the case here though. Of cour…

> If the executives want to hit their performance bonuses they might start axing lower revenue projects or support groups This is not a reaction to an FTC case.

It is if the settlement affects their finances.

Re: Epic Games is laying off 16% of its staff

#170

Post by robertlagrant » Thu, Sep 28, 2023, 4:36 PM UTC

KronisLV wrote: post #141

danjac wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's about as silly a measure as number of lines of code produced.

> That's about as silly a measure as number of lines of code produced. How else would you measure how much work someone does, other than by how much tracked work that's attributed to them there is? The people using these indicators probably don't care about someone who might have fewer closed issues but instead is helping out 5 people work more efficiently, but rather about people who are constantly shipping measurab…

Ease of measurement is not enough. I can drive badly under the speed limit, so even though speed is easy to measure, it's not nearly good enough to evaluate my driving.