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Google is picking ChatGPT responses from Quora as correct answer

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Re: Google is picking ChatGPT responses from Quora as correct answer

#231

Post by pipeline_peak »

elicksaur wrote: post #69
LeifCarrotson wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And they want it to perform proofreading. And to generate copy for articles and blog posts and job listings and email responses. And to respond to tech support tickets. And to operate a phone tree. And, heaven help us, to write software, and - oh God no - to drive cars. The problem is that people are actually finding it useful for all of those things! I, too, would never have drawn up a functional specification for a…

Why does everyone frame the problem as “if you phrase the question wrong”? This example is a simple question. Any human who understands English understands the meaning of the question here. The fact that it gets it wrong with this phrasing indicates the model doesn’t understand the world. We shouldn’t blame users for asking questions “wrong”.

He’s not saying it’s the users fault for how they phrase the question. He’s saying the bot is limited in how it interprets questions.

Re: Google is picking ChatGPT responses from Quora as correct answer

#232

Post by s3p »

pasquinelli wrote: post #119
Ensorceled wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The tendency of a lot of the population to prioritise quick and vapid answers over researching and thinking for themselves isn't helping either. This makes no sense... how do they "research researching and thinking for themselves" without the internet? Encyclopædia Britannica stopped publishing in 2010.

just don't stop at the very first answer you get. dig a little.

I'm glad you know the solution, but non-HN people are going to just accept whatever Google shows in big text.

Re: Google is picking ChatGPT responses from Quora as correct answer

#233

Post by gs17 »

enragedcacti wrote: post #145
TimTheTinker wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Post-truth’s overwhelming flood of true, false, and irrelevant claims is empowering critical thinking. It’s offering freedom. By and large, critical thinking hasn't been taught effectively in public schools for at least 10 years now. Even when it was, only a fraction of the public were able to think independently and logically in such a way as to eliminate spurious data/voices and deduce the truth accurately. Far f…

> critical thinking hasn't been taught effectively in public schools for at least 10 years now. I'm not well versed in education, what are you basing this on?

I left a public high school ~10 years ago, it was definitely the case for my school back then. We were maybe given a little booklet on critical thinking at some point and that was about it. Can't speak to other public schools or more recent than that, but I can't imagine the schools worse than where I went putting in a bigger effort. You can argue it's taught all over the curriculum, but most of my teachers didn't really want to challenge us in that way (e.g. English class where you had to have the right themes for a book just because, science/math/history classes where there wasn't really something to question).

Re: Google is picking ChatGPT responses from Quora as correct answer

#234

Post by wredue »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #167
wredue wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve had people respond to my posts with “yeah well ChatGPT says …”. For starters, I don’t give a shit what ChatGPT has to say about various programming topics. Second, it makes sense that ChatGPT would get the facts of immutability utterly, childishly incorrect because fad oriented development has decided that claims absent evidence is the way to write software.

> I’ve had people respond to my posts with “yeah well ChatGPT says …”. One generation earlier, the argument was “yeah well Google/Wikipedia says …”. So this is nothing new.

It is new though. These AIs are known for being somewhere between outright wrong to subtly wrong, while not presenting a separate layer.

When I searched something, I was given lots of results and could individually make judgements. With ChatGPT, people are treating these answers as authority at a much more dangerous level than you would have from engaging with a search engine or sourced material.

I will grant that yes, googling and Wikipedia can also get things outright to subtly wrong, but the presentation can make those inaccuracies more apparent.

Re: Google is picking ChatGPT responses from Quora as correct answer

#235

Post by TimTheTinker »

gs17 wrote: post #233
enragedcacti wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> critical thinking hasn't been taught effectively in public schools for at least 10 years now. I'm not well versed in education, what are you basing this on?

I left a public high school ~10 years ago, it was definitely the case for my school back then. We were maybe given a little booklet on critical thinking at some point and that was about it. Can't speak to other public schools or more recent than that, but I can't imagine the schools worse than where I went putting in a bigger effort. You can argue it's taught all over the curriculum, but most of my teachers didn't re…

Yes, exactly. Also, in any subject where there isn't a clear "wrong" answer, you as a student are free to take up any position as long as you can "back it up".

In theory, that sounds like a decent policy. But in practice, it creates an environment where students just learn to write thoughtful-sounding BS and know they don't really need to work hard to engage with the material or even understand it.

Re: Google is picking ChatGPT responses from Quora as correct answer

#236

Post by [deleted] »

15457345234 wrote: post #229
goodluckchuck wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t know that critical thinking can be taught. However, you may be right that schools aren’t creating circumstances for children to learn it. I don’t know. What I do know is that most of the information that has ever existed (or will ever exist) is false. Because information can only be true to an extent, from a perspective, and for a purpose. If you change the scope and purpose of a discussion and look at it fro…

> Because information can only be true to an extent, from a perspective, and for a purpose. If you change the scope and purpose of a discussion and look at it from a different perspective the truth will appear completely different. This is the worst type of pomo garbage. This is true only in the case of relatively unimportant 'he-said-she-said' type of situations. In most cases, there's a canonical flow of events tha…

[deleted]

Re: Google is picking ChatGPT responses from Quora as correct answer

#237

Post by mike741 »

famouswaffles wrote: post #217
mike741 wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

66% accuracy is not "great" and definitely not the best there's ever been.

If they aren't great then neither are doctors and the word becomes meaningless. Context is important. 66% accuracy on cases that stumped doctors and took extensive testing is not trivial. It's not the same as 66% accuracy for everyday diagnosis.

The study references "clinicians" rather than "doctors." Clinicians include psychologists, pharmacists, nurses, physicians, paramedics, etc.

Re: Google is picking ChatGPT responses from Quora as correct answer

#238

Post by joshspankit »

itsoktocry wrote: post #156
alasdair_ wrote: post #153

Quora is clearly doing this so that they rank highly on Google and get clicks. What surprises me is that Google doesn't seem to care, despite their stance that "Using automation—including AI—to generate content with the primary purpose of manipulating ranking in search results is a violation of our spam policies." https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2023/02/google-sea...

> Quora is clearly doing this so that they rank highly on Google and get clicks. Quora is garbage and always has been. For a while people thought it was going to be the place where smart insiders provided great answers. Then it turned into another spammy Q&A site that forces you to log in..because VCs need their money.

It feels like it’s time for Quora to sunset.

It had it’s moment and that moment was glorious, but now as Dr. Kelly Starrett says “You can’t make a bad position good by shoving it in to a good position. You have to start over.”

Re: Google is picking ChatGPT responses from Quora as correct answer

#239

Post by famouswaffles »

mike741 wrote: post #237
famouswaffles wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they aren't great then neither are doctors and the word becomes meaningless. Context is important. 66% accuracy on cases that stumped doctors and took extensive testing is not trivial. It's not the same as 66% accuracy for everyday diagnosis.

The study references "clinicians" rather than "doctors." Clinicians include psychologists, pharmacists, nurses, physicians, paramedics, etc.

Point still stands.

Expert system diagnostic tools aren't that great.

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