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Deno Queues

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121–130 of 168 posts

Re: Deno Queues

#121

Post by dackerlunghack »

BoorishBears wrote: post #116
endisneigh wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, you cannot run your own foundationdb server and use the kv service without reimplementing yourself in fdb

This instantly reminded me of Next.js, which is open source but has a special build format for serverless environments. The 1st party implementation is closed source: 3rd parties start on the back foot trying to implement alternatives and have to keep up with a 1st party that can move in lockstep. And sure enough, like every other time I see this kind of behavior: Deno was invested in by the CEO of Vercel. "Javascrip…

Vercel needs to stop with this bullshit. It is straight up predatory ”open” source. Like a trapper’s cage, there’s a convenient, tasty bait and then it’s too late.

Re: Deno Queues

#122

Post by crabmusket »

spion wrote: post #117

I like how updating the data and enqueueing a message can be part of a single transaction. That's indeed pretty powerful. A bit of an aside, but not sure we want at-most-once delivery for email.

Didn't the article say at-LEAST-once?

Re: Deno Queues

#123

Post by ollien »

robertwt7 wrote: post #120

How is this different than using RabbitMQ? Can anyone tell me what’s the benefit of choosing this one over some other message queues or even kafka?

Well, a couple things.

For one, this is just a simple queue with no routing capabilities. It's a much simpler tool.

For two, and more importantly, it's built into your application and introduces no additional operational dependency.

You could probably achieve a pretty similar API with a custom AMQP library, though!

Re: Deno Queues

#124

Post by coding123 »

zja wrote: post #85
dsherret wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tying a language runtime to a specific KV interface which is tied to a specific hosted service is the opposite of forward thinking. This is not the case. The Deno runtime itself is not tied to the Deno Deploy hosting service. The KV feature in the Deno runtime can be used without the hosting service. You can read the details about how Deno KV works in the Deno runtime here: https://til.simonwillison.net/deno/deno-k…

> The KV feature in the Deno runtime can be used without the hosting service. But one writes to foundation, and the other writes to a sqlite file. You wouldn’t be able to self host an app written for Deno Deploy and have it work out of the box. Are there any plans to open source the KV backend so that people could host their own KV databases? Now that you can connect to remote Kv databases, I suppose someone could im…

This is what Java did - JCP created, APIs invented to be implemented by Tomcat, JBoss, fill in your favorite here. Configure your actual instance - in the past this was done with beautiful UIs - total waste of time considering we're in the era of Yaml (FBFW?) configuration.

Re: Deno Queues

#125

Post by BoorishBears »

dackerlunghack wrote: post #121
BoorishBears wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This instantly reminded me of Next.js, which is open source but has a special build format for serverless environments. The 1st party implementation is closed source: 3rd parties start on the back foot trying to implement alternatives and have to keep up with a 1st party that can move in lockstep. And sure enough, like every other time I see this kind of behavior: Deno was invested in by the CEO of Vercel. "Javascrip…

Vercel needs to stop with this bullshit. It is straight up predatory ”open” source. Like a trapper’s cage, there’s a convenient, tasty bait and then it’s too late.

Is it too cynical to say this might be a lesson devs need to learn the hard way?

Right now the JS community has whipped themselves into a frenzy into building on VC backed technology.

- They refuse to acknowledge that the loudest voices in the room are openly sponsored and invested in by the same VCs who own the companies behind said tech

- They see no issue with a lack of diversity in implementations, instead settling for "it's a standard". Of course, defining a standard without a healthy variety of implementations means you end up with standards that don't benefit from a wide range of voices until well after they land (see RSC)

At the end of the day, those two alone are a pretty harsh combo: A VC-backed network effect machine built across multiple brands, and high technical costs to building something that meets the collection of standards.

I don't think anyone but FAANG can really compete with that without also getting VC dollars, thus reinforcing the loop.

Re: Deno Queues

#126

Post by Etheryte »

On the topic of Deno's cloud deployment and Deno KV, does it offer a reasonable user story for caching? Or is that something you're expected to handle yourself (for now)?

Re: Deno Queues

#127

Post by AgentME »

BoorishBears wrote: post #116
endisneigh wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, you cannot run your own foundationdb server and use the kv service without reimplementing yourself in fdb

This instantly reminded me of Next.js, which is open source but has a special build format for serverless environments. The 1st party implementation is closed source: 3rd parties start on the back foot trying to implement alternatives and have to keep up with a 1st party that can move in lockstep. And sure enough, like every other time I see this kind of behavior: Deno was invested in by the CEO of Vercel. "Javascrip…

You can build a Next.js app and run it on a docker container or regular linux host almost anywhere. Vercel has some nice continuous deployment stuff built-in but I'm not sure how a Next.js app is locked into it at all.

Re: Deno Queues

#128

Post by willsmith72 »

BoorishBears wrote: post #116
endisneigh wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not true, you cannot run your own foundationdb server and use the kv service without reimplementing yourself in fdb

This instantly reminded me of Next.js, which is open source but has a special build format for serverless environments. The 1st party implementation is closed source: 3rd parties start on the back foot trying to implement alternatives and have to keep up with a 1st party that can move in lockstep. And sure enough, like every other time I see this kind of behavior: Deno was invested in by the CEO of Vercel. "Javascrip…

Yep, part of why I looked for alternatives and settled on Remix. It's never sat right with me

Re: Deno Queues

#129

Post by willsmith72 »

antod wrote: post #94
marmaduke wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't recall SQS taking anytime to set up queues, at least when using Celery (python task queue). IIRC you just name it in your code and use it.

That's just at the codebase end of it. But at the infra end of it, it's a different story. AWS is suited towards a very different scale of development effort than Deno currently is. The effort required from scratch to securely and reliably get to a point where a dev can just name a queue is substantial in AWS. You really need account hierarchies, guard rails, roles, permissions, delegated IaC etc etc in place to be a…

It used to be like that. These days I often see 1-3 person teams just copying around some terraform config they've had forever, and all of their AWS setup is done.

Re: Deno Queues

#130

Post by willsmith72 »

skybrian wrote: post #32
lopatin wrote: post #17

> Leveraging public cloud infrastructure has traditionally demanded sifting through layers of boilerplate code and intricate configurations, often monopolizing a significant chunk of the developer’s time and energy. I don't buy this line of reasoning. At the end of the day we are building infrastructure that needs to be reliable. Spending 30 minutes to set up an SQS queue (proven technology) doesn't sound as bad as p…

I think this depends on who you are. As a hobbyist programmer, I don't use the big providers like AWS and Google because they seem rather complex? Maybe it's not so bad if you're used to them. I also like to make each project independent, as its own repo on GitHub. Ideally, a web app would be easy for anyone else to launch, as their their own independent web app, using a separate domain name, because I don't want to…

If Deno only suits hobbyist programmers, it's failed. To pick up steam it's going to have to pull people away from AWS and Google who already know how to use them.

As for making project's independent, so do I, but that's simple in other clouds too with infra as code or one of the various deployment frameworks (fly lets you do this, AWS copilot does this, terraform, serverless)

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