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Merlin's Wisdom Project

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Re: Merlin's Wisdom Project

#51

Post by pavlov »

0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #42
noirbot wrote: post #22

> Never argue on the internet. No one will remember whether you won or lost the argument; they'll just remember that you are the sort of person who argues on the internet. This is burned in my mind and doesn't anchor enough of my judgement of what to engage with on the internet yet, but I've never yet been steered wrong by it. EDIT - This is equally applicable to realms outside of the internet. You have to be really…

This is a purely selfish analysis though. You may be remembered as that person who argues about things -- but it could also be that the group is much better off due to your arguments. "It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit"

A person who argues about things in a group is usually someone who cares very much about getting the credit for being right.

The “amazing what you can accomplish” quote is about doing things indirectly and without ego — the opposite of pounding on with upfront arguments.

Re: Merlin's Wisdom Project

#52

Post by demetrius »

Could someone please explain this one to me?

> If you really want a glass of water at a restaurant, always order that first. As you do this, look the server in the eyes and nod.

I don't understand it at all. Is is to make sure you get the water first, and not with the other dishes? Is it to test how the waiter would react, and whether you want to order other things?

Why that weird ritual with the eyes, what is it supposed to mean?

Re: Merlin's Wisdom Project

#53

Post by haswell »

pavlov wrote: post #51
0xDEAFBEAD wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a purely selfish analysis though. You may be remembered as that person who argues about things -- but it could also be that the group is much better off due to your arguments. "It is amazing what you can accomplish if you do not care who gets the credit"

A person who argues about things in a group is usually someone who cares very much about getting the credit for being right. The “amazing what you can accomplish” quote is about doing things indirectly and without ego — the opposite of pounding on with upfront arguments.

> A person who argues about things in a group is usually someone who cares very much about getting the credit for being right.

I think this is a bit of an overgeneralization. People also argue because:

- They’re passionate about a given topic

- They’re actually right about a consequential topic and find it worth standing their ground

- Some people just really like to argue about things - not for the payoff, but for the joy of argument itself (see: debate)

I’ve encountered the ego-centric “I just want to get credit for something” types, but I wouldn’t say this is always or even most often the case.

Re: Merlin's Wisdom Project

#54

Post by AnimalMuppet »

demetrius wrote: post #52

Could someone please explain this one to me? > If you really want a glass of water at a restaurant, always order that first. As you do this, look the server in the eyes and nod. I don't understand it at all. Is is to make sure you get the water first, and not with the other dishes? Is it to test how the waiter would react, and whether you want to order other things? Why that weird ritual with the eyes, what is it sup…

I think it's just to make sure that you get a glass of water. If you order the water last, the waiter is somewhat likely to forget the water. The look-and-nod might be to make sure that they got it, but I understand that part less.

Re: Merlin's Wisdom Project

#55

Post by AnimalMuppet »

> Be sparing in how often you tell someone their negative feelings are wrong; it rarely helps a sad person to be told that they are also a liar.

Their feelings are a liar (or at least can be). That's an important difference.

Re: Merlin's Wisdom Project

#56

Post by TheCleric »

layer8 wrote: post #47
criddell wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a couple of minor carpentry projects going on. I could finish them quickly if I bought or rented great power tools. I don't want to spend the money though, so I'm using mostly hand tools and manual labor.

My point is that I wouldn’t say that that labor comes for free. In any case, that triangle would then not apply in a commercial setting, where you have to pay those doing the labor, in addition to it taking time.

It still applies in a lot of circumstances. For example when to buy off the shelf (for $$$$) vs rolling your own solution (which will take longer but could be less money in the long run).

Re: Merlin's Wisdom Project

#57

Post by TheCleric »

aidenn0 wrote: post #3

> Frequently ask yourself: do I want to be right, or do I want to be happy? I always felt that people giving this advice assume the latter is preferable. Is there something defective about me if I prefer the former?

I used to be in that camp, but one thing I realized over time was I didn't want to be right: I wanted everyone to admit I was right. And eventually I (mostly) realized that I can be both "right" (in my own head at least) and happy because I no longer was basing my feelings of happiness on the beliefs and actions of others.

This is exponentially more true on the internet. You have trolls who will never admit you're right because they feed off the argument itself. Eventually, as well you will find yourself fighting against someone just like you in a zero sum game that will drive both of you to anger and frustration.

But I could be wrong. :)

Re: Merlin's Wisdom Project

#58

Post by thecosas »

zoogeny wrote: post #12

In the past I've lambasted some of these collections of wisdom. There is a certain point in a man's life where he feels he wants to write down a collection of hard-learned thoughts and experiences. These often appear on HN. Most often they are pretentious. For whatever reason, I liked this one. I can't say it is a better collection than others that I have pretty harshly criticized. I can't say it is better written. I…

For me, a big part of why I like this are the pre-ambles to the "wisdom" especially the bullets under "Brief introductory remarks regarding the Project:"

Re: Merlin's Wisdom Project

#59

Post by aidenn0 »

zoogeny wrote: post #11
aidenn0 wrote: post #3

> Frequently ask yourself: do I want to be right, or do I want to be happy? I always felt that people giving this advice assume the latter is preferable. Is there something defective about me if I prefer the former?

One thing that changed this for me (I agree the saying is a bit trite) was a comment by Joscha Bach in some podcast where he mentions realizing that he had a totally wrong conception of conversation when he was a kid. To paraphrase his idea, he had previously seen discussion as an opportunity to share facts and engage in a mutual exploration of the truth. But in reality, most conversation is negotiating social status…

> If you are optimizing for "truth" and everyone else is optimizing for "happiness", you might find yourself optimized out of the equation.

When this happens to me, the "optimizing out" is usually mutual, and when it is unilateral it is as often from my side as theirs.

Re: Merlin's Wisdom Project

#60

Post by zoogeny »

aidenn0 wrote: post #59
zoogeny wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that changed this for me (I agree the saying is a bit trite) was a comment by Joscha Bach in some podcast where he mentions realizing that he had a totally wrong conception of conversation when he was a kid. To paraphrase his idea, he had previously seen discussion as an opportunity to share facts and engage in a mutual exploration of the truth. But in reality, most conversation is negotiating social status…

> If you are optimizing for "truth" and everyone else is optimizing for "happiness", you might find yourself optimized out of the equation. When this happens to me, the "optimizing out" is usually mutual, and when it is unilateral it is as often from my side as theirs.

That is totally possible. One thing to watch out for is the fable of the fox and the grapes. The fox is unable to get the grapes from a high branch and so wanders away thinking "they are probably sour". It is just a reminder that sometimes when we can't get something we want we use a defense mechanism to protect our ego.

Kind of the point of "wisdom" though is the judgement to know when it applies and when it doesn't. Being on guard for common cognitive mistakes is a healthy part of self-reflection. It doesn't suggest that at all times and in all moments that you are in breach of some universal moral imperatives.

And so "being on the same wavelength" goes both ways. Although, if you find that you are always requiring others to always be on your wavelength and you are never willing to match theirs, that might be another thing to self-reflect on.

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