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San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

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Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#51

Post by colpabar »

the_snooze wrote: post #41
wombat-man wrote: post #34

Idk what the truth is. But I visited SF and went into a Walgreens. The shelves were mostly empty and there were a number of people just sweeping stuff off the shelves into their backpacks. It was bizarre to see.

A lot of the arguments about whether SF crime statistics say X or whether stores leave for reason Y miss the point entirely: There's simply a lot of human misery and complacency towards it out in the open in SF (and in nearby areas like Oakland and Berkeley). When you've experienced it firsthand, apologists' arguments sound just like "who are you going to trust, me or your lying eyes?"

At this point I really want to go and experience it myself. Every single real life person who lives there or close by has said that things are pretty bad when I've asked them about it. Seemingly every article about it says it's pretty bad. The only people saying it's no big deal are anonymous people online claiming to have lived there forever and that it's all just right wing propaganda.

What am I supposed to believe? The videos I've seen of the city and the "flash mobs" (lol) emptying stores make it seem really bad. Should I just wait for the city to put out a tourist friendly "look how great SF is" video and take their word for it?

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#52

Post by DragonStrength »

fzeroracer wrote: post #48
DragonStrength wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, some items are locked up almost everywhere, as the post you replied to said. What's unique to SF is the amount of uniformed security and amount of items locked up versus what you'd see in the same store in Manhattan, for instance. You can discount the anecdotes all you want, but what's going on in SF is not the same as other urban areas. Perhaps it's a west coast contagion, since the apologists mostly point to o…

A West Coast contagion, right. I've seen these same carbon copy posts in about every city I've lived in across the US. Usually from people that live outside of the city or have never gone into it.

Well, that'd put you at odds with state leadership in CA who see their current situation in a much more sober light. Going from unchecked projected growth to projected stagnation in a 3 year span isn't something I've experienced in other parts of the country in my lifetime, so I'm glad you're ready for it.

FWIW, I currently live in a "high crime" east coast city -- the kind Californians hold up as a boogeyman versus their "safe" cities. I chose it after years of "safe" SF declining.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#53

Post by wombat-man »

colpabar wrote: post #51
the_snooze wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of the arguments about whether SF crime statistics say X or whether stores leave for reason Y miss the point entirely: There's simply a lot of human misery and complacency towards it out in the open in SF (and in nearby areas like Oakland and Berkeley). When you've experienced it firsthand, apologists' arguments sound just like "who are you going to trust, me or your lying eyes?"

At this point I really want to go and experience it myself. Every single real life person who lives there or close by has said that things are pretty bad when I've asked them about it. Seemingly every article about it says it's pretty bad. The only people saying it's no big deal are anonymous people online claiming to have lived there forever and that it's all just right wing propaganda. What am I supposed to believe…

My intern was based there and she had no complaints. If you have any kind of reason, SF is totally worth a weekend visit and maybe longer. I've been there a few times and I'd say it's mostly fine. But you may see pieces of the bad scenes you've seen online.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#54

Post by frumper »

barake wrote: post #5
throw0101a wrote: post #2

Not just SF: "Target says it will close nine stores in major cities across four states because of theft and organized crime" * https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/26/business/target-retail-theft-...

Blaming shrink may be a way to not spook the market for issues with their business: > Target’s business has struggled for more than a year with company-specific challenges, including a glut of unsold inventory, backlash to its Pride merchandise collection and a pullback in consumer spending on discretionary items such as apparel and home goods. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/26/target-says-it-will-close-ni...

One would think that the issues you highlight would be less pronounced in large cities, and progressive locations. If target was closing stores in small cities you've never heard of then you may have been on to something.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#55

Post by jansan »

ot1138 wrote: post #35
jansan wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With all the data available it should be an easy task for a data scientist to find out the correlations. Why is nobody doing this?

It seems like it would be such an easy thing to figure out.

Maybe they are not allowed to publish their findings for political reasons, who knows.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#56

Post by fzeroracer »

DragonStrength wrote: post #52
fzeroracer wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A West Coast contagion, right. I've seen these same carbon copy posts in about every city I've lived in across the US. Usually from people that live outside of the city or have never gone into it.

Well, that'd put you at odds with state leadership in CA who see their current situation in a much more sober light. Going from unchecked projected growth to projected stagnation in a 3 year span isn't something I've experienced in other parts of the country in my lifetime, so I'm glad you're ready for it. FWIW, I currently live in a "high crime" east coast city -- the kind Californians hold up as a boogeyman versus…

If you had bothered to read any of my prior posts you'd see that I don't live in CA or SF, so this weird sort of projection you're doing where you're acting like I'm some stereotypical Californian isn't exactly doing you any favors.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#57

Post by jansan »

fzeroracer wrote: post #28
jansan wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you aware that in most parts of the world there is not a single product locked away in drugstores or supermarkets?

Yes, I live in one where the target locked up toothpaste while the other stores a block away locked up nothing. It's incredibly weird that you keep trying to push a narrative on someone living in that area with experiences that directly contradict yours. Where in Seattle do you live?

By "the world" I actually mean "the world" as in the planet earth or all seven continents, not just the neighboring state in the United States of America.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#58

Post by fzeroracer »

jansan wrote: post #57
fzeroracer wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I live in one where the target locked up toothpaste while the other stores a block away locked up nothing. It's incredibly weird that you keep trying to push a narrative on someone living in that area with experiences that directly contradict yours. Where in Seattle do you live?

By "the world" I actually mean "the world" as in the planet earth or all seven continents, not just the neighboring state in the United States of America.

Okay, great. What's your point here? I live in an area where that issue you bring up does not exist. States have a wide degree in variation (I would know, since I've lived on both coasts and in Texas). Do you live in WA? Or anywhere in the greater US?

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#59

Post by jansan »

fzeroracer wrote: post #58
jansan wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "the world" I actually mean "the world" as in the planet earth or all seven continents, not just the neighboring state in the United States of America.

Okay, great. What's your point here? I live in an area where that issue you bring up does not exist. States have a wide degree in variation (I would know, since I've lived on both coasts and in Texas). Do you live in WA? Or anywhere in the greater US?

No, I do not live in the US.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#60

Post by 15457345234 »

nailer wrote: post #40
15457345234 wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The obvious issue being that, on the internet, it's impossible to differentiate genuine anecdotes from agendapushing. On a reddit city subreddit that had bubbled up to the frontpage this morning I noticed three or four people claiming that a certain bus route had basically become a mobile homeless shelter constantly full of migrants playing music and being obnoxious. About two or three other people were chiming in sa…

> it's impossible to differentiate genuine anecdotes from agendapushing. You're right. I had a friend from Malmo, Sweden who talked about the weirdness of the city being used as a talking point both left and right wing Americans. Her feeling was the left were saying everything was fine, the right were saying it's a dystopian nightmare, and neither were accurate. It's a city with unique problems.

Yeah that's one of those places that seems to pop up in the news unusually frequently for the size and shape of the place. Reddit seems convinced ethnic cleansing is about to take place there, not sure entirely how true that is. Definitely something odd happening over there.
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