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A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

cambridgeblog.org

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Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#501

Post by ryandrake »

sneak wrote: post #494
ryandrake wrote: post #492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the importance of the "making" part greatly depends on how long it's been since the making happened. The more time that elapsed, the less important it is, and the more important the child's existing bond to their (assumed) father is. If I suddenly found out my 10 year old didn't happen to biologically come from me, it's not like I'd love her any less. What kind of monster says "Oh, so the kid's not 'biologica…

> I'd have words with mom, though, obviously... To what end?

Never gave it much thought because my kid's genetic lineage has never really been called into question. Obviously if something like this came up, you'd have to talk to your partner about a wide variety of topics ranging from trust to STDs. But "should I keep loving and raising the child" would obviously not be one of them.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#502

Post by mcguire »

"But in practice, extremely few medical conditions are checked for and “excluded” before concluding a diagnosis ... – the great majority are not checked for at all. Very often, ... is diagnosed “by default”, because no known alternative explanation was found (or even actively sought)."

From anecdotes I hear, that is one of the major problems with the medical system in a nutshell.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#503

Post by noobermin »

In the anglosphere (or may be just america) "think of the children" has lead to a lot of these sorts of issues. Child abuse is the worst thing anyone could imagine, and so, how could anyone over-react? How can any action be enough? May be some figures or entities take advantage of this, but there is some sincere motivation in these drives too. And now, we have issues like this article, children not being allowed unattended in most public places, children unallowed to walk on their own without adult supervision, and it goes on and on.

The thing is there is no needed ill intent, all parents can be sincere, and yet create a society and culture that stunts their very childrens' growth and lives. In the article, as the author said, how many thousands of parents have been separated from their child, and the infant, now parent-less, will be shuffled from foster home to foster home, all in the name of ending abuse based on filmsy evidence and poor science? It's depressing.

The very desire to protect and love leads to hurting those we intend to help.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#504

Post by cool_dude85 »

danenania wrote: post #496
cwmma wrote: post #491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something similar happened recently in Massachusetts with a doctor seeing an injury the parents couldn't explain and the kid being taken away for a while. Injury turned out to probably have been done by the grandparents who never told the parents because the kid didn't fuss, but the kids were taken away in the middle of the night. https://www.nbcboston.com/investigations/massachusetts-dcf-e...

My first inclination here is to blame the doctor. Per the Hippocratic Oath, doctors need to understand the implications of making reports like this and only do so in cases where there isn't reasonable doubt or plausible explanations other than abuse. Separating children from parents and making accusations like this is extremely traumatic in itself, so the evidence bar needs to be very high. Even if the rules tell doc…

I'm not sure if it's federal, but in my state a doctor is required to report anything they feel is unusual. Mandated reporter, it's called.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#505

Post by cool_dude85 »

stef25 wrote: post #264
charles_f wrote: post #212

Once my kid cut his butt cheek falling off his bike (to this day I don't know how). I brought him to the hospital for sutures, and was asked to live the room while he was questioned. I felt very uncomfortable, and almost guilty, while this lasted for all of 5 minutes. I cannot imagine losing custody of your child while he's in an emergency situation for a couple months. This must be a nightmare.

> was asked to live the room while he was questioned Is that even legal ? Anyone trying to get between my kids and I is going to have a very bad day.

Sorry, you think in a case where the doctor suspects abuse, they should have to ask the kid while the potential abuser stands there next to her?

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#506

Post by Strom »

thatfrenchguy wrote: post #413
the_af wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oh the good old, violent Easter European bias mixed into crap science. Honest question, trying to parse your statement (and bear in mind I don't live in Europe, so I'm surely missing the obvious): do you mean that in Denmark there is a bias against Eastern Europeans, such as Romanians? Edit: excellent, got a downvote for asking an honest question and clarifying why I wrote it. Is this an example of the fine discour…

It’s not just in Denmark, most Europeans have a negative bias towards Romanian immigrants (mostly because they’re too ignorant to even know Romanians are not Roma).

> because they’re too ignorant to even know Romanians are not Roma

I don't think the term Roma has a bad association, because in my experience nobody but the most woke even know it. That is the PC term. People I've encountered just use gypsy or their local equivalent.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#507

Post by [deleted] »

noobermin wrote: post #503

In the anglosphere (or may be just america) "think of the children" has lead to a lot of these sorts of issues. Child abuse is the worst thing anyone could imagine, and so, how could anyone over-react? How can any action be enough? May be some figures or entities take advantage of this, but there is some sincere motivation in these drives too. And now, we have issues like this article, children not being allowed unat…

[deleted]

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#508

Post by [deleted] »

rapatel0 wrote: post #181

This doesn’t surprise me. We have massive systemic issues in medical science and care delivery. - Medical science handles variation by simply assuming that large enough samples will average out variation. This loses a ton of information as the “average person” is a construct that almost certainly doesn’t exist. - news media on medical science glosses over all uncertainties in the name of clickbaity sensationalism. -…

[deleted]

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#509

Post by jacquesm »

slashdev wrote: post #498
jacquesm wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my children had a serious problem right after birth with breathing (central apnea). He'd stop breathing suddenly while sleeping. If this had happened at home he likely would not have made it, but the hospital was very alert to it and after two weeks with many such episodes it suddenly clicked and then it never happened again. If we had taken him home without knowing about the condition I'm pretty sure a 'SIDS'…

Thank god the hospital caught it!

They were really caught out by it themselves if not for an unrelated issue they would have sent us home. So luck played a huge part here. That's also two weeks that aged me a couple of years. But compared to what I saw some of the other parents there deal with we were the lucky ones in more ways than one.

Re: A journey into the shaken baby syndrome/abusive head trauma controversy

#510

Post by tboyd47 »

rapatel0 wrote: post #181

This doesn’t surprise me. We have massive systemic issues in medical science and care delivery. - Medical science handles variation by simply assuming that large enough samples will average out variation. This loses a ton of information as the “average person” is a construct that almost certainly doesn’t exist. - news media on medical science glosses over all uncertainties in the name of clickbaity sensationalism. -…

Your narrative reverses the roles a bit. The lawyers appear as the heroes in this particular story and the villains are all associated with the hospital -- either in the form of people or bureaucratic red tape, depending on how generous you want to be in your analysis.

> The doctors at the hospital were absolutely, unconditionally 100% certain that no other cause than violent shaking could ever explain blood around the brain and at the back of the eyes.

> As a precautionary measure, the hospital followed mandatory reporting statutes and my wife and I temporarily lost custody of David.

> I disturbingly realized that what I had been told at the hospital, namely that subdural and retinal hemorrhage in infants are almost always caused by violent shaking even in the absence of external evidence of trauma, was an assertion based on very weak scientific foundations.

> Thanks to our incredibly effective defense lawyer, we were cleared of all charges within two months, during which we stayed at the hospital 24/7 with David until we sorted out the legal procedures.

> Every case requires years of intense, dedicated efforts by an entire team of specialized lawyers and medical experts, but there are tens of thousands of cases and few experts willing to defend them.

Hospitals are definitely the weak link in this system. Just looking at the way the story is laid out, the solution is more lawyers and fewer, less expansive hospitals.

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