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Deno Queues

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Re: Deno Queues

#71

Post by dsherret »

paxys wrote: post #38
zoogeny wrote: post #36

I think what Deno is aiming for here is actually very forward thinking. I'm using Go for the first time this year and some aspects of the language are very C like. Of the list of things that isn't C like (e.g. GC allowing one to return what look like stack allocated pointers from functions) there is the obvious inclusion of things like `map[string]string`. I bring this up because it struck me that inventing a languag…

I disagree. Tying a language runtime to a specific KV interface which is tied to a specific hosted service is the opposite of forward thinking. In fact the tech industry has made a lot of progress away from vendor locked-in stacks, and this just reminds me of those. What is really the difference between Deno.KV being shipped as part of the runtime vs adding an `import KV` statement at the top of the file (which could…

> Tying a language runtime to a specific KV interface which is tied to a specific hosted service is the opposite of forward thinking.

This is not the case. The Deno runtime itself is not tied to the Deno Deploy hosting service. The KV feature in the Deno runtime can be used without the hosting service.

You can read the details about how Deno KV works in the Deno runtime here: https://til.simonwillison.net/deno/deno-kv (as has been posted in other comments)

Re: Deno Queues

#73

Post by trescenzi »

msoad wrote: post #65
trescenzi wrote: post #48

I wonder how this differs from BroadcastChannel[1] which Deno already implements and DenoDeploy seems to support. [1]: https://docs.deno.com/deploy/api/runtime-broadcast-channel

persistance?

Yea I think that's the answer. The queues are deeply integrated into a datastore so you have a trace of what happened and you can do it all atomically.

Re: Deno Queues

#74

Post by nesarkvechnep »

rubenfiszel wrote: post #72

This is amazing syntax. If you are looking for a self-hostable version of this, that can run deno but also python, go, and bash, with primitives similar to airflow and more (retries, cache, suspend, approval steps), check out windmill: https://github.com/windmill-labs/windmill

Amazing syntax? Isn’t this standard JS chaining?

Re: Deno Queues

#75

Post by nmca »

kwhinnery wrote: post #15
nmca wrote: post #11

(on the off chance the devs read this) I can see pain in the future for the currently excellent KV ergonomics around access control --- is the solution just "implement it in userland and don't write bugs" or is there anything planned?

User-level access control (like ACLs for authenticated users) or something else? Feel free to share longer form thoughts here and I can make sure we keep this concern in mind.

systems level - so if, for example, I can have two services or serverless functions, one of which can access the world and the other of which cannot see, for example, the pii tables.

(I'm not a production customer, and I haven't thought through how this ought to work in deno-deploy-land, I've just seen a lot of painful ACL set ups. But I also like knowing that lambda function foo written by the intern can't read every DB table)

Re: Deno Queues

#76

Post by rubenfiszel »

nesarkvechnep wrote: post #74
rubenfiszel wrote: post #72

This is amazing syntax. If you are looking for a self-hostable version of this, that can run deno but also python, go, and bash, with primitives similar to airflow and more (retries, cache, suspend, approval steps), check out windmill: https://github.com/windmill-labs/windmill

Amazing syntax? Isn’t this standard JS chaining?

Exactly! It looks and feel like normal JS and hides all the complexity behind it which is the print of great syntax.

Re: Deno Queues

#77

Post by paulddraper »

paxys wrote: post #38
zoogeny wrote: post #36

I think what Deno is aiming for here is actually very forward thinking. I'm using Go for the first time this year and some aspects of the language are very C like. Of the list of things that isn't C like (e.g. GC allowing one to return what look like stack allocated pointers from functions) there is the obvious inclusion of things like `map[string]string`. I bring this up because it struck me that inventing a languag…

I disagree. Tying a language runtime to a specific KV interface which is tied to a specific hosted service is the opposite of forward thinking. In fact the tech industry has made a lot of progress away from vendor locked-in stacks, and this just reminds me of those. What is really the difference between Deno.KV being shipped as part of the runtime vs adding an `import KV` statement at the top of the file (which could…

> Tying a language runtime to a specific KV interface which is tied to a specific hosted service is the opposite of forward thinking.

Yeah, I'm hella confused.

Isn't Deno the Node.js replacement?

But now it's a database as well?

It's jumped the shark for sure.

Re: Deno Queues

#78

Post by welder »

Very timely... I'm almost finished porting WakaQ (my custom background task queue to replace Celery) from Python into TypeScript to power background tasks for a new Next.js website. I'm using T3 not Deno so I wouldn't have used Deno Queues, but it's a core part of every web app so makes sense they would build this into their stack.

Some questions:

* Looks very powerful, but at the core is it just one single queue? Does Deno.openKv() create a new queue or re-use the same queue every time it's called?

* Usually I need multiple queues of different priority, so when bottlenecks happen the highest priority jobs run first.

* Maybe they guarantee infinite worker capacity so you don't need queue priorities? No bottlenecks if you can pay for the jobs you enqueue?

Re: Deno Queues

#79

Post by realPubkey »

paxys wrote: post #38
zoogeny wrote: post #36

I think what Deno is aiming for here is actually very forward thinking. I'm using Go for the first time this year and some aspects of the language are very C like. Of the list of things that isn't C like (e.g. GC allowing one to return what look like stack allocated pointers from functions) there is the obvious inclusion of things like `map[string]string`. I bring this up because it struck me that inventing a languag…

I disagree. Tying a language runtime to a specific KV interface which is tied to a specific hosted service is the opposite of forward thinking. In fact the tech industry has made a lot of progress away from vendor locked-in stacks, and this just reminds me of those. What is really the difference between Deno.KV being shipped as part of the runtime vs adding an `import KV` statement at the top of the file (which could…

This. It could have been a npm package, why build it directly into Deno?

Re: Deno Queues

#80

Post by leptons »

asim wrote: post #20
lopatin wrote: post #17

> Leveraging public cloud infrastructure has traditionally demanded sifting through layers of boilerplate code and intricate configurations, often monopolizing a significant chunk of the developer’s time and energy. I don't buy this line of reasoning. At the end of the day we are building infrastructure that needs to be reliable. Spending 30 minutes to set up an SQS queue (proven technology) doesn't sound as bad as p…

Many people don't have experience with AWS or SQS and even those that do will still need to think about it. Deno is taking a batteries included approach which means the Dev can just import something and go. If someone provided equivalent libraries for the cloud then I'm sure people would adopt them. In the case of Deno I'm sure they've identified a common problem many Devs in their ecosystem have and are tackling it…

If Deno is only going after amateur devs by implementing simplistic features like this, then it will remain an amateur product. AWS/SQS may seem complex to some, but they are very powerful. Maybe Deno is doing what Apple did in the 80's by putting free Apple computers in classrooms - try to get new users hooked into their system and then they'll use it for life. Anyone doing anything serious with cloud computing is already using AWS, or should be. I would rather put in the time to learn AWS (which is entirely free in many small use cases), so I won't build stuff in a toy system and then later realize I need something better.
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