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My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards

jackevansevo.github.io

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Re: My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards

#221

Post by jodrellblank »

I have a slightly different keyboard relationship; I used to browse the Typing Injury FAQ of alternative keyboard designs[1] and fell for the idea of chording keyboards and mobile devices like the DataEgg[2] (I still wonder if chording could be useful on multitouch mobile devices), then for mechanical IBM Model M, then for split Microsoft Natural, then if you're going to split for each hand, don't half-arse it, whole-arse it with the DataHand[3] and its opto-magnetic switches. Then why not type faster like a court reporter, with Stenography and keyboards which support n-key rollover so they can be used with Plover[4].

Actually, what I most like is a flat keyboard with full keys and arrows and separate F keys and numeric keypad. Because most of what I'm doing is not entering long-form English literature, it's text and key combinations and numbers and arrows and symbols and mouse clicks and holding a phone and anything which requires the concentration of a weird entry system, or needs both hands in just the right places, or cuts out lots of keys to look stylish or take up less desk space or squash keys together to fit on a laptop, or change the alignment of keys weirdly, or assume everyone has prehensile thumbs which can take 90% of the key load on their own, or disregard years of muscle memory for a little temporary fashion, are ... worse.

[1] http://www.tifaq.org/keyboards.html - look at the links down the left side menu.

[2] https://friedmanarchives.com/dataegg/index.html see also AgendA https://friedmanarchives.com/dataegg/History.html and Twiddler2 - https://www.researchgate.net/figure/HandyKey-Twiddler-2-Chor...

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DataHand

[4] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34298063

Re: My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards

#222

Post by nprateem »

namrog84 wrote: post #134

Hey keyboard and computer enthusiast! I need your help! Any other keyboard I've ever tried hurts my wrists, arm, and back, and causes me pain except the "Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000". However they were discontinued years ago. :( I've been buying up used ones and learning how to disassemble and repair the ones I have the best I can, but my skills are limited. If anyone has any (unopened) ones or knows of…

I used this for 15 years and now within 5 minutes it gives me crippling RSI. Now, going from an ergo keyboard with 35g keys to this it's obvious just how much effort it takes to press the keys. Either way gutted I can't use this any more .

Re: My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards

#223

Post by tqwhite »

formvoltron wrote: post #20

I would go for the apple magic keyboard, except for that arrow key cluster. Had a macbook with those once and hated it. Good that the author pointed out the inability of removing keys to clean with the Logi MX. I'd have sprung for that but dislike anything that is potentially going to become garbage.

I used UV cure glue to put small dots on the little arrow keys. It totally solved the problem for me. Turns out my issue was that I couldn't be sure my fingers were on them and which one. The raised dots worked.

Re: My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards

#224

Post by nprateem »

jodrellblank wrote: post #221

I have a slightly different keyboard relationship; I used to browse the Typing Injury FAQ of alternative keyboard designs[1] and fell for the idea of chording keyboards and mobile devices like the DataEgg[2] (I still wonder if chording could be useful on multitouch mobile devices), then for mechanical IBM Model M, then for split Microsoft Natural, then if you're going to split for each hand, don't half-arse it, whole…

Yeah and those keyboards give some of us RSI.

Re: My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards

#225

Post by toyg »

normaler wrote: post #193
jseliger wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I eventually wound up with Kinesis ergo keyboards and stopped being much "into" keyboards; they are a means to an end: https://jakeseliger.com/2011/07/17/further-thoughts-on-the-k... . Now I have an Advantage 3 with Box White switches, after admittedly talking to an Upgrade Keyboards key switch sommelier, which I admit somewhat undercuts my first sentence in this comment.

I have been using the Freestyle Pro for the last 4 years now and it has ended me thinking about keyboards. I was really looking forward to the new super fancy one, but that felt too expensive when I already have one I am happy with it. ~600 Euros in DE when I remember correctly.

Same here. I've been a Kinesis fan since 2012 and went through several Freestyles, and for the last 5 years or so I've rocked the Edge (basically a Pro with rgb lights and mech switches). I was really looking forward to the Advantage360 but the UK price is mental: £590 for the cordless version. Yes, it's a great keyboard that will likely last a decade, but I'm not convinced the gains are big enough to justify the cost.

Re: My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards

#227

Post by toyg »

rewmie wrote: post #211
jseliger wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I eventually wound up with Kinesis ergo keyboards and stopped being much "into" keyboards; they are a means to an end: https://jakeseliger.com/2011/07/17/further-thoughts-on-the-k... . Now I have an Advantage 3 with Box White switches, after admittedly talking to an Upgrade Keyboards key switch sommelier, which I admit somewhat undercuts my first sentence in this comment.

> eventually wound up with Kinesis ergo keyboards and stopped being much "into" keyboards; Aren't those like $500 a pop? Handing out that kind of dough for a keyboard sounds like the opposite of stopping being much into keyboards.

When the alternative is sore wrists and a bad back, stopping you from working altogether, the price is justified.

This said, they used to be cheaper.

Re: My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards

#228

Post by narag »

frameset wrote: post #16

I really don't understand the numpad-less trend of fashionable keyboards. Doing any kind of number entry beyond one or two digits is very annoying without one. They also don't take up that much space really. If your keyboard is a portable one you pack with you on trips, I get it. If it lives on a desk, why not splash out the small amount extra to make number entry much easier.

I really don't understand the numpad-less trend of fashionable keyboards.

OK, I've read all the answers so far, in the hope that somebody had told you before, but no!

I don't use the numpad, so it's useless to me. But does it harm? In the case of these keyboards, not so much, except for the reason others have already explained of more distance for the mouse. I can live with it, but my next keyboard will be numpad-less for sure.

If we talk about laptops, that's a different story. Numpads for those are terrible, for me anyway.

They shift the center of the hands, that is between G and H, from the center of the laptop and thus the center of the screen, so your hands are in an unnatural position.

If you center an external wide keyboard, you get the same effect. I don't, but I try to use the GH line... "try" because the push from the mouse always tend to move it to the left.

So now you know, for some of us it's not a question of fashion, but usability :)

Re: My Unhealthy Relationship with Keyboards

#230

Post by probablycarrots »

namrog84 wrote: post #134

Hey keyboard and computer enthusiast! I need your help! Any other keyboard I've ever tried hurts my wrists, arm, and back, and causes me pain except the "Microsoft Natural Ergonomic Keyboard 4000". However they were discontinued years ago. :( I've been buying up used ones and learning how to disassemble and repair the ones I have the best I can, but my skills are limited. If anyone has any (unopened) ones or knows of…

The 4000 is by far my favorite keyboard and I also have a small stockpile. Over the years I've tried dozens of alternatives and never found anything with the appropriate wrist/hand angle. Everything about it is perfect for me.

If I were wealthy I'd try having one commissioned. I'm sort of terrified that one day I'll be forced to use something else.

I tried many of the adjustable modern split keyboards that come in two halves (and are missing 10-key) but absolutely despise having half of my keyboard move around. The trend of keyboards cut in half doesn't make any sense to me. I never look at the thing and I expect every key to be exactly where I left it.

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