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Unions work

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Re: Unions work

#121

Post by zeroonetwothree »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #72
braza wrote: post #43

Kudos for the WGA for the achievement. I partially agree with the statement that unions work. From what I see Unions are great and the current model works in situations where there are 2 monopolies, a monopoly of a work place and monopoly of workforce. In this case the WGA is the monopoly of workforce and the Hollywood is the monopoly of workplace. Along the history I saw that this dynamic worked and got advancements…

Are you implying that it is unions that cause corporations to seek offshoring, automation etc.? From where I stand it’s a constant race to extract more from workers and unions and possibly legislation are some of the very few forces impeding it.

Inasmuch as unions increase the cost of labor, employers will have a stronger incentive to replace it with capital.

It’s one reason we haven’t seen much advancement (until recently!) in automated food preparation (vis-a-vis industrial factories)—the labor has been very cheap.

Re: Unions work

#122

Post by dehrmann »

braza wrote: post #43

Kudos for the WGA for the achievement. I partially agree with the statement that unions work. From what I see Unions are great and the current model works in situations where there are 2 monopolies, a monopoly of a work place and monopoly of workforce. In this case the WGA is the monopoly of workforce and the Hollywood is the monopoly of workplace. Along the history I saw that this dynamic worked and got advancements…

> the “losing side” in a negotiation will start to see alternatives to reduce the dependency of this monopoly

Really, it's that you can't hold back the invisible hand forever. If the deal was actually too good for workers, it leaves room for a foreign competitor to move in.

It's fine that the use of AI will be limited in TV and movies, but once it's good enough to actually write shows, a new AI-driven studio will do that, and Hollywood doesn't control distribution well enough to stop them.

Re: Unions work

#123

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

londons_explore wrote: post #14
xnx wrote: post #2

I'm conflicted about unions, but it would be truly amazing if they brought us the 4-day work-week the way they got the 8-hour workday and weekends.

A good chunk of employers will let you work a 4 day workweek in return for a 20% pay cut. For most people here on HN, you could probably survive on a 20% pay cut - you'd just have to have the kids share a bedroom rather than having one each and a guest room. Downside: Those on a 4 day workweek really struggle to get promoted to senior positions.

For a sense of scale, the difference in pay for the same hours and same role (and same individual), just for moving 200 km between Seattle and Vancouver, is something like a 40-60% cut in total comp before tax. 20% is small potatoes.

Re: Unions work

#124

Post by marcosdumay »

nonethewiser wrote: post #104
eric_cc wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> working 32 hours is not as productive as 40 hours. Absolute statements like this on this topic are invalid. It’s relative and fluid and not something you can prove scientifically and definitively.

It's safe to say 32 hours of work does not produce more than 40 hours. The gray area is the point at which there are diminishing returns. Is that between 32 and 40 hours, or more? And how much do they diminish?

No, that's not safe at all. On the context of the article, I would expect writers total production to increase steadily with decreasing hours on that interval.

Re: Unions work

#125

Post by 1propionyl »

AlbertCory wrote: post #32

Where does that amazing 59% come from? Oh yes: a survey the AFL-CIO conducted, with no details provided: " In the early 2000s the AFL-CIO Department for Professional Employees started conducting survey of tech workers across the country found. In 2004, the survey showed that just 33% supported unionizing their workplace. By 2016, that had grown to 59%." The only "survey" that counts is the actual election for union r…

You would think so, but there tends to be pretty significant bias in union card campaigns and authorization votes. Strike authorizations tend to be even higher.

People who don't support the campaigns tend to just not vote, but there's also a significant number of people who just don't find out.

A better "survey" would be the number who actually sign union cards in workplaces with mandatory union orientations (meaning every employee is necessarily "surveyed"). This also means agreeing to pay dues so there's a "money where your mouth is" component.

(Source: I've helped with running a few.)

Re: Unions work

#126

Post by sershe »

callmeal wrote: post #97
braza wrote: post #43

Kudos for the WGA for the achievement. I partially agree with the statement that unions work. From what I see Unions are great and the current model works in situations where there are 2 monopolies, a monopoly of a work place and monopoly of workforce. In this case the WGA is the monopoly of workforce and the Hollywood is the monopoly of workplace. Along the history I saw that this dynamic worked and got advancements…

>I would bet that Tesla today can have a high operational margin in comparison with Ford or GM. Of course they can, and we know where that margin comes from: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/may/18/tesla-wor... Ambulances have been called more than 100 times since 2014 for workers experiencing fainting spells, dizziness, seizures, abnormal breathing and chest pains, according to incident reports obtained b…

[flagged]

Re: Unions work

#127

Post by Spivak »

billy99k wrote: post #86
Spivak wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Are you implying that it is unions that cause corporations to seek offshoring, automation etc.? Well that's at least the spooky scary threat that companies use to get people to not join union so my bet is that it's total bullshit and if they could already offshore their workers and factories they would have done so already. Milk those higher wages and benefits while they're still here because they won't change the…

That isn't the point. When the union is involved, they keep demanding hire wages and benefits and it gets to the point where companies are better-off offshoring. Just look at the automotive industry. They have not only been offshoring, but the unions have strangled them to the point where it nearly destroyed the industry. I will only buy non-US cars as a result of this (mostly because of poor qualit).

That makes no since because foreign companies are onshoring manufacturing. There's a good chance your foreign car was made here.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Honda_Motor_Company

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_of_America

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyundai_Motor_America

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Motor_North_America

The fact that The Ford Dodge GM Chrysler Jeep Dr Pepper Snapple Group can't make a quality car is on them. In real dollars American workers have never cost less.

Those fat-cat union workers making… $45k/yr. Don't they understand how their greed affects our profits?

Re: Unions work

#128

Post by knewter »

When I was learning to walk, my dad was installing conveyors for an automotive factory - he was vp of engineering (later robotics) for a large engineering firm that Siemens ultimately bought.

He was trying to get the job finished and get home to his family, so he was working late one night double checking the fit on all the nuts, bolts, anything he could check to ensure the job was successful. He did this all the time, I learned how to successfully deliver product from seeing him do it.

A gang of union guys came up to him and threatened to beat him if he continued to work because he was taking a union job away from "the pipe guy", call him Frank.

My dad says "that's fine, can frank come help?"

"Frank's out sick"

And that was that. He either stopped getting the job done or they would visit violence upon him.

I'll never side with people that think this is acceptable behaviour.

Re: Unions work

#129

Post by zeroonetwothree »

specialist wrote: post #95
VancouverMan wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The impact of unionization on the customers/consumers should be considered, too. My experiences dealing with unionized workforces in Canada as a customer/consumer have generally not been good at all. Such workers often exhibit tremendous inefficiency, a lack of care, and disinterest. This results in low-quality service/work, and a bad experience for the customers/consumers involved. This is particularly noticeable wh…

In what ways would non-union government employees be better?

Presumably the idea is they would be motivated to do a good job or else be fired. Whereas now they are immune from firing unless doing something egregious.

I don’t really agree with that though as the real reason is the government has no competition. If McDonalds does a bad job at service you will go to Burger King. But if the DMV does a bad job well tough cookies what are you going to move to Sweden?

Re: Unions work

#130

Post by randomcarbloke »

babypuncher wrote: post #58
mjr00 wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that comes to fruition they'll just have one writer who is responsible for putting their name on a ton of AI-generated scripts. But at this very moment, AI generating anything suitable for something other than SEO blogspam isn't possible anyway. It might be right around the corner, or it might be "right around the corner" like self-driving cars were in 2015.

I'm not convinced LLM's are capable of any truly original thought, which is necessary for good compelling writing. LLM's spit out derivative nonsense. Highly convincing nonsense, but derivative nonetheless. Any true originality in the output still comes from the human engineering the prompt. Basically, LLM's know how to follow the rules, color within the lines. A real artist understands those rules well enough to bre…

So what you're really saying is there are no true artists left in Hollywood.
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