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Unions work

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Re: Unions work

#101

Post by mitthrowaway2 »

nonethewiser wrote: post #83
bastardoperator wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies have shown time and time again that a 4 day work week results in higher productivity and happier employees. Happy employees also do better work.

No they have not. Studies by motivated parties show in some cases there are diminishing returns. It's a non-sensical argument. If a 4 day work week is more productive than a 5 day work week it means the 5th days is producing negative work. You could literally do nothing every Friday and you would not be less productive than a 4 day work week.

That's not non-sensical at all. It's completely plausible. In any task, fatigue results in diminishing marginal productivity, to the point where taking time to rest and recover will sometimes boost total productivity more than spending that time working. Evidence, not blanket dismissal, is required to determine if that's true for Fridays.

Re: Unions work

#102

Post by mikecoles »

Woshiwuja wrote: post #38
ocschwar wrote: post #12

I have my doubts about unions in our particular industry sector, but out in the real world there are many, many jobs that you would have to be insane to take up without a union at your back.

Unions are fundamental in every line of work. Not having them is a huge problem. In Europe there isnt a single job without an union behind, wonder why in America that doesnt happen

Americans are smart enough and strong enough to not have to hide behind a 'powerful union'. Unions are nothing more than legalized mob. The are worthless for productivity and a disaster for those who are eager to work.

Re: Unions work

#103

Post by hypeit »

nonethewiser wrote: post #83
bastardoperator wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies have shown time and time again that a 4 day work week results in higher productivity and happier employees. Happy employees also do better work.

No they have not. Studies by motivated parties show in some cases there are diminishing returns. It's a non-sensical argument. If a 4 day work week is more productive than a 5 day work week it means the 5th days is producing negative work. You could literally do nothing every Friday and you would not be less productive than a 4 day work week.

> You could literally do nothing every Friday and you would not be less productive than a 4 day work week.

This would be an accurate statement for most work places. People are often creating negative value in the modern workplace in the form on tech debt, new bugs, unwanted features, meetings that drain the rest of the staff...

5 days isn't productive for knowledge and creative work, it leaves people in a state of perpetual burn out and greatly lowers the quality of output.

Re: Unions work

#104

Post by nonethewiser »

eric_cc wrote: post #93
nonethewiser wrote: post #53

I can see why workers are most concerned with their own benefit but total productivity is important to the health of a business and economy, which is important to workers as well. And no, working 32 hours is not as productive as 40 hours.

> working 32 hours is not as productive as 40 hours. Absolute statements like this on this topic are invalid. It’s relative and fluid and not something you can prove scientifically and definitively.

It's safe to say 32 hours of work does not produce more than 40 hours.

The gray area is the point at which there are diminishing returns. Is that between 32 and 40 hours, or more? And how much do they diminish?

Re: Unions work

#105

Post by VancouverMan »

gumby wrote: post #48
xnx wrote: post #2

I'm conflicted about unions, but it would be truly amazing if they brought us the 4-day work-week the way they got the 8-hour workday and weekends.

I built my house using union labor. Having seen the quality of welds from some non-union welders it was a no brainer. Overall quality of the rest of the work (carpentry, plastering everything) was worth it.

Is there something that such unions in your area do to ensure that a worker's skill and ability matter far more than, say, who their relatives happen to be?

Re: Unions work

#106

Post by neon_electro »

treis wrote: post #44
ShrigmaMale wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. I'm kind of surprised more unions haven't taken responsibility for opening up co-ops. They have lots of money to do it, it's pro-worker, and it enables them to own the means of production. Unions ironically act very conservative these days. They could take some bold steps to potentially create very worker-friendly, worker-owned shops, which would create a voluntary, non-coercive path towards the "market soci…

Because the real title should be Unions Work For Union Members. Unions became unpopular for a reason. Some were (and I assume still are) outright criminal organizations. The better ones were happy to sell out future workers with two tiered pay structures and by rotting out the companies they worked for. In practice they have just been another layer of economically unproductive people siphoning off value.

Unions are working to fight the two tier wage structure you speak of; are you aware? UPS/Teamsters is one such example.

Re: Unions work

#107

Post by [deleted] »

nonethewiser wrote: post #83
bastardoperator wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies have shown time and time again that a 4 day work week results in higher productivity and happier employees. Happy employees also do better work.

No they have not. Studies by motivated parties show in some cases there are diminishing returns. It's a non-sensical argument. If a 4 day work week is more productive than a 5 day work week it means the 5th days is producing negative work. You could literally do nothing every Friday and you would not be less productive than a 4 day work week.

[deleted]

Re: Unions work

#108

Post by sundaeofshock »

say_it_as_it_is wrote: post #66

Unions also kill companies when executives refuse their demands: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_McCardell

Hmmm… that’s a very interesting take an article that suggests the hubris of the CEO ended up destroying the company he was hired to lead.

Re: Unions work

#109

Post by braza »

andrei_says_ wrote: post #72
braza wrote: post #43

Kudos for the WGA for the achievement. I partially agree with the statement that unions work. From what I see Unions are great and the current model works in situations where there are 2 monopolies, a monopoly of a work place and monopoly of workforce. In this case the WGA is the monopoly of workforce and the Hollywood is the monopoly of workplace. Along the history I saw that this dynamic worked and got advancements…

Are you implying that it is unions that cause corporations to seek offshoring, automation etc.? From where I stand it’s a constant race to extract more from workers and unions and possibly legislation are some of the very few forces impeding it.

> Are you implying that it is unions that cause corporations to seek offshoring, automation etc.?

Not for this _single_ reason. The decision for offshoring/nearshoring is a multifaceted one.

Companies that have the risk to be locked in a workforce monopoly and does not have the capability to offshore/nearshore work positions, will fight with nail and tooth attempts for uniontization

Re: Unions work

#110

Post by hypeit »

hgdfhgfdhgdf wrote: post #82
bastardoperator wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Studies have shown time and time again that a 4 day work week results in higher productivity and happier employees. Happy employees also do better work.

If that were true, why isn't every company adopting 4 day work weeks?

Poor management is endemic. Managers are for the most part trying to maximize their ego/status. This means having their "underlings" grinding away (preferably in view) for as many hours as possible. That this situation is bad for the company doesn't matter since management is the one executing the poor decisions.
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