Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don’t understand why doctors are so dismissive and mean people
Sorry that is terrible phrasing. You don't understand why doctors act in a dismissive manner that seems mean. Rephrase it and it becomes the start of a solution. What should happen in a patient doctor interaction where the doctor is not able to reassure a patient that the prescribed treatment plan is the best plan.
Common infections can spark psychiatric illnesses in children
221–230 of 245 posts
Re: Common infections can spark psychiatric illnesses in children
#222Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Actions and outcomes count, not intentions. There is a whole division in law around mens rea vs actus reus that disagrees with this take.
I'm aware, but the bar for a guilty mind is quite low. You basically have to have known what you are doing, which we assume just about every conscious person does. There are also crimes where mens rea isn't even applied to a perpetrator, but to a reasonable objective analyzer (eg. manslaughter).
Do you mean this in terms of a cross-system comparison (i.e. variation between legal systems)?
Do you mean this in terms of some philosophy that lays out a more sensible stance?
I've been digging into this somewhat; happy to learn more.
Re: Common infections can spark psychiatric illnesses in children
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sorry that is terrible phrasing. You don't understand why doctors act in a dismissive manner that seems mean. Rephrase it and it becomes the start of a solution. What should happen in a patient doctor interaction where the doctor is not able to reassure a patient that the prescribed treatment plan is the best plan.
I don't really care if you think it's terrible phrasing. It accurately portrays how I feel.
Re: Common infections can spark psychiatric illnesses in children
#224Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Firstly, one would expect to see indications of the evidence for cognitive behavioral therapy There is plenty of evidence if you go looking. It also looks like there is significant overlap between CFS and long covid and the PACE trial demonstrated strong evidence for the effectiveness of CBT in ME/CFS. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/37155736/ > multiple documented physiological issues. "proposed mechanism" != "mul…
The PACE trial has been widely discredited. From Wikipedia: ”A 2010 meta-analysis of trials that objectively measured physical activity before and after CBT showed that although CBT effectively reduced patients' fatigue questionnaire scores, activity levels were not improved by CBT and changes in physical activity were not related to changes in fatigue questionnaire scores.“ Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chro…
> These are politicized by certain patient advocacy groups and associated publishing circles but the evidence is considered pretty strong in the broader medical sphere.
The “critiques” of the PACE study are mostly based around p-hacking the objectives until you get the results you want. PACE participants saw significantly fewer hospitalizations, lower mortality, and better reported questionnaire scores as a bonus.
Because there is a lot of ire against recommending CBT among patient advocacy groups (including threatening to kill the authors and their families), some researchers have critiqued PACE because they have found some metrics in post-analysis that PACE did not improve (classic p-hacking). But that does not represent the broader view of the field.
Described by other scientists: “[The critiques come from a] fairly small, but highly organized, very vocal and very damaging group of individuals who have, I would say, actually hijacked this agenda and distorted the debate so that it actually harms the overwhelming majority of patients.'
> It shall not be dismissed as “proposed mechanism”.
That is literally how the paper self described. I am linking you multiple RCTs demonstrating impact and you are linking speculative causes of a disease that do not yet meet Koch’s postulates. But even if a neurological mechanism holds up (not at all unlikely in my view), this is likely to not be the case for all populations currently diagnosed with long covid - but rather a subset. CBT will likely be helpful for both populations, given the evidence I have linked.
My proof of my claim is that I have researched alternative treatments for long covid and CFS and none of them have these effect sizes :) If you have contrary evidence, that’s on you to prove, but fwiw I am not going to keep replying.
And again, I’ve linked RCT evidence for the effectiveness of CBT in long covid, which I guess you have nothing to say about.
Re: Common infections can spark psychiatric illnesses in children
#225Honestly I feel like the science community’s disregard for religion has caused them to completely fail at dealing with human psychology. Science has spent the last 1.5 centuries presenting itself as a counterpoint to religion, but they fail to understand that religion is just an early attempt at talking about the subconscious. So the science community continually misidentifies issues stemming from the subconscious as…
The science community often includes religious people. Jung may be right. He wasn't out to prove "science" wrong. He did his own thing. I haven't seen many people outside Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss and Neil Degrasse seriously try and blame religion for scientific failings.
Re: Common infections can spark psychiatric illnesses in children
#226Earlier quoted context omitted.
> But causal processes can _generate_ rational argument. There is no reason for thinking this. A causal process can be associated and simultaneous with an argument, but it can't generate it, except by accident. The state of mind '2+2' may be followed by the state of mind '4', but it could just as easily be followed by the state of mind '5'. Causal processes may make us believe one or the other, but they will not make…
That's why I said 'can'. I didn't say 'always'. A deterministic computer program _can_ generate rational argument; e.g. it can use logical deduction a.k.a. forward-chaining. Your claim seems to be that causality (governing the behavior of human thought and action) does not _necessarily_ result in rationality (in that human)? Of course -- this is obvious. This seems like a miscommunication. Perhaps an unavoidable one?…
That's not my claim. Basic observation of oneself or others make this, as you say, strikingly obvious :)
My claim is rather that causality can't be a sufficient explanation for rationality. By this I mean that we can't explain rational thought by referring to the cerebral states that are associated with it. Remember your original claim that 'free will' is an illusion, because what impacts me at time T is [limited to] my state at time T-1, and my environment.[0] I take this to mean that my state at T is caused solely by my state at T-1 and envt. IF you're right about this, AND IF I'm right that causality can't be a sufficient explanation for rationality, then it implies that rationality is impossible.
Why can't causality be a sufficient explanation for reality? We can't explain rational thought by referring to the cerebral states associated with it, because the question of whether a thought is rational is indepedent of its associated cerebral state. There are cerebral states associated with 2+2=4 (rational), and cerebral states associated with 2+2=5 (irrational). But neither of these cerebral states is itself right or wrong. Only the thoughts associated with them are right or wrong.
I know that 2+2=4. It's not just that I have a series of successive, causal states that make me think this; it's that the content of the thought is correct. My mind has grasped a truth about reality. Similarly, someone who thinks 2+2=5 is wrong. It's not just that he has a series of successive, causal states that make him think thus; it's that the content of his thought is incorrect, and his mind has failed to grasp a truth about reality. When we say thought is correct or incorrect, rational or irrational, we refer to the content of the thought, not the brain state.
Thought must be about something other than the brain state to be right or wrong. But if thought is entirely generated, and sufficiently explained, by causal processes, it can only reflect the brain state, and can't be right or wrong. Since thought can be right or wrong, it follows that rational thought is something more than the product of causal processes, and is (at least partially) independent of them.
[0] I have added the words in square brackets myself, but I think that's your meaning.
Re: Common infections can spark psychiatric illnesses in children
#227Earlier quoted context omitted.
PANDAS is better described as a syndrome of symptoms all occurring at once. It's caused by strep (and in our case at least) can also be triggered by covid vaccines or other things as well) so a strep text only tells you if the child has strep. In our case, the treatment was the test, in that if it didn't work, it would (arguably) help rule it out. But it did work, for which we're grateful.
According to the conventional PANDAS theory, due to biological mimickry antibodies against Step A bind to neurons and attack them, so there are antibody tests that focus on Strep A that are used as diagnostic tools in PANDAS, such as antistreptolysin O (ASO), anti-DNAse B (ADB), and streptococcal carbohydrate (anti-CHO). However, there a lots of kids diagnosed with PANDAS who have high levels of those antibodies at s…
Re: Common infections can spark psychiatric illnesses in children
#228Re: Common infections can spark psychiatric illnesses in children
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
The science community often includes religious people. Jung may be right. He wasn't out to prove "science" wrong. He did his own thing. I haven't seen many people outside Richard Dawkins, Lawrence Krauss and Neil Degrasse seriously try and blame religion for scientific failings.
Psychiatry is a religious community that occasionally includes scientists, but they're largely regarded as delusional or backwards, and derided or ostracized as needed.
Re: Common infections can spark psychiatric illnesses in children
#230Earlier quoted context omitted.
Psychiatry is a religious community that occasionally includes scientists, but they're largely regarded as delusional or backwards, and derided or ostracized as needed.
It’s comments like this that completely prove my point. The idea that psychiatry is “religious” is absurd.
But it's a tale as old as time: when any community schisms, and there's a rejection of the "original traditions" the new guys limp along without 'em for a long time, and gradually, piecemeal, they realize they miss those things, or those things were essential to life, and they reinvent them and they put new names on them, but if you examine their essence then you'll see how similar they are to the "old ways".
It happens within Christianity itself! All the time! Protestants spent 500 years rejecting and reviling Catholics, but then they became Mormon, and everything old is new again.
What's happening in the world is a widespread secularization of nations. You know, disestablishmentarianism - the First Amendment. If no religions or allowed, or if all religions are promoted equally, then something will fill the vacuum and become re-established, you can bet your bottom dollar.
Nations who attempt to outlaw and persecute religion get a somewhat bad rep. Nations who legalize all of them are literally a city upon a hill!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_upon_a_Hill
The strategy of atheist states is to generally subjugate Church to control by the State. If this cannot be done, that religion must be exterminated. China's a good example, and Mexico did their part. Atheist states by no means would/could eliminate religions; they know what service is done for the masses.
The State has its own flavor of religion, its own rituals and priests, sacraments and sacramentals, liturgies and rites. Look at Old Glory, baseball games, military customs, Congress in session, look at the architecture of DC and try to tell me that that's not the New Secular Athens.
Psychiatry is the moral arm of the state, with temporal and spiritual power, authority, and jurisdiction over the citizenry in regards to our internal forum. Psychiatry is granted the rights to teach doctrine, to coerce sacraments, and to revoke rights. I won't elaborate on the whole picture, because your opinion won't change, but try to open your mind, eh?