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San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

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Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#21

Post by DragonStrength »

JohnMakin wrote: post #9
nailer wrote: post #6

> “The thing I have noticed is when the anecdotes and the data disagree, the anecdotes are usually right. There’s something wrong with the way you are measuring it” -Jeff Bezos The article quotes this and responds that people need to come up with their own data for crime. I’ve visited SF every few years for the last 20. On my last visit about 6 weeks ago it looked like Covid was still a thing. Streets that were previ…

You can feel all you want, but the stats generally do not agree with you. SF’s violent crime rate is nearly half that of alaska’s yet you will never hear these same people talking about how dangerous juneau is.

This is my favorite head in the sand trope. If you've lived in SF and another major city, you know this is all PR. SF has armed robbers smashing car windows with impunity, but we can count it "unarmed" because citizens aren't dumb enough to get involved. Hell, cops don't even need to show up to take a report so long as you don't get involved and get hurt. Shit, now we've helped our property crime numbers and violent crime numbers! And if we're lucky, these folks have never left the city and won't understand our numbers must be cooked.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#22

Post by jansan »

fzeroracer wrote: post #18
jansan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if in drugstores most of the products must be locked away and you need to ask a clerk to get them, there is obviously a problem, regardless of what the statistics say.

When you need to board a plane there's a ton of security you need to go through and you need to be thoroughly investigated. So obviously criminals causing issues on planes is a big problem. It's all security theatre. Theft does exist and happens, but it becomes an excuse by management to lock up toothpaste behind glass cases so that they can pretend their store isn't falling apart.

Are you aware that in most parts of the world there is not a single product locked away in drugstores or supermarkets?

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#23

Post by fzeroracer »

jansan wrote: post #14
itomato wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“Texas notably has a threshold of $2500, which means you can steal 2.6 more than you could in California before being classified as a felon“

Sure, we all have seen the videos from Texas where shoplifters calmly walk out of stores with >2000$ worth of stolen goods. Not.

Yes, actually. I saw videos like that pop up when I lived in Texas. A few in Dallas, a few in Austin. Not sure what narrative you're trying to push by pretending these didn't exist, since these same videos were usually drummed out to say 'see look what happens when you defund the police' or whatever.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#24

Post by bushbaba »

JohnMakin wrote: post #9
nailer wrote: post #6

> “The thing I have noticed is when the anecdotes and the data disagree, the anecdotes are usually right. There’s something wrong with the way you are measuring it” -Jeff Bezos The article quotes this and responds that people need to come up with their own data for crime. I’ve visited SF every few years for the last 20. On my last visit about 6 weeks ago it looked like Covid was still a thing. Streets that were previ…

You can feel all you want, but the stats generally do not agree with you. SF’s violent crime rate is nearly half that of alaska’s yet you will never hear these same people talking about how dangerous juneau is.

Sf doesn’t have a gang violence issue. It’s non violent crime and general pedestrian unfriendliness.

You won’t get stabbed walking on 6th st, but I know plenty who had a homeless in SF hit them with chicken, hit with food trays, chased, yelled, needles thrown, etc.

Petty theft is also generally never reported. What the heck are the pd going to do about your stolen iPhone. Why are you going to file a report when there’s no outcome.

The SF metreon target 10 years ago didn’t need things locked up. Now they lock up much. The only explanation I have for why retail in SF has recently started really going overboard on shoplift preventing is that shoplifting has gotten worse.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#26

Post by bushbaba »

fzeroracer wrote: post #18
jansan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, if in drugstores most of the products must be locked away and you need to ask a clerk to get them, there is obviously a problem, regardless of what the statistics say.

When you need to board a plane there's a ton of security you need to go through and you need to be thoroughly investigated. So obviously criminals causing issues on planes is a big problem. It's all security theatre. Theft does exist and happens, but it becomes an excuse by management to lock up toothpaste behind glass cases so that they can pretend their store isn't falling apart.

Safeway, Target, CVS all have extra security precautions in place only in SF than these retailers aren’t implementing in the surrounding Bay Area.

CVS in Palo Alto doesn’t lock up goods. Target in EPA doesn’t lock up drugs or formula. Etc.

SF city has a theft problem that is clearly worse than other Bay Area towns.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#27

Post by thaumasiotes »

thelastparadise wrote: post #20
barake wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blaming shrink may be a way to not spook the market for issues with their business: > Target’s business has struggled for more than a year with company-specific challenges, including a glut of unsold inventory, backlash to its Pride merchandise collection and a pullback in consumer spending on discretionary items such as apparel and home goods. https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/26/target-says-it-will-close-ni...

> Pride merchandise collection Calling it this seems a bit disingenuous. "Pride" is a pretty broad word. Who's proud? What are they proud of, exactly?

The fact that "Pride" occurs in the middle of a sentence removes any potential ambiguity.

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#28

Post by fzeroracer »

jansan wrote: post #22
fzeroracer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you need to board a plane there's a ton of security you need to go through and you need to be thoroughly investigated. So obviously criminals causing issues on planes is a big problem. It's all security theatre. Theft does exist and happens, but it becomes an excuse by management to lock up toothpaste behind glass cases so that they can pretend their store isn't falling apart.

Are you aware that in most parts of the world there is not a single product locked away in drugstores or supermarkets?

Yes, I live in one where the target locked up toothpaste while the other stores a block away locked up nothing. It's incredibly weird that you keep trying to push a narrative on someone living in that area with experiences that directly contradict yours. Where in Seattle do you live?

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#29

Post by Schiendelman »

jansan wrote: post #25
ot1138 wrote: post #12

I wonder what all these areas where major retailers are pulling out have in common?

With all the data available it should be an easy task for a data scientist to find out the correlations. Why is nobody doing this?

What makes you think they aren’t?

Re: San Francisco Shoplifting: Much More Than You Wanted to Know (2022)

#30

Post by keiferski »

This article made me realize one of the inherent strengths of democracy-by-voting, as opposed to “dataism” and an over-obsession with statistics: the vote doesn’t require any kind of debate that relies on nitpicking and selecting using certain data and omitting other data.

Usually this is interpreted as a bad thing, as the electorate being uninformed, uninterested, etc. But it might actually be good in the opposite way, because the feelings and experiences of real-world people are ultimately what matter. No one can tell you, “Sorry, that experience you had isn’t valid and my gish-gallop of 500 pages of data analysis shows why.”

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