This quote summarizes how terrible the article is:
> If you need to follow a prescribed process in order to be in any way an effective coder then you are mediocre at best and so is your work and your project.
Agile is a Sham
91–100 of 189 posts
Re: Agile is a Sham
#92[Obligatory plug and disclaimer: Agile professional who wrote an earlier rant "Agile Ruined my Life" http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2010/09/agile-ruined-... Also I am writing some practical how-to Agile e-books trying to undo some of the damage: http://tiny-giant-books.com/scrummaster.htm ] Just differentiate between what Agile is and how people are pushing Agile on you. Different things entirely. Agile is be…
Don't you think that agile proponents are frequently using a No True Scotsman here? That is, Statement: No Agile Team would do X. Response: An Agile Team did do X. Statement: Well, no True Agile Team would do X. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman )
So what? It doesn't absolve the team of the fact that they're doing Agile incorrectly. Call them whatever you want, they're still Doing It Wrong.
Re: Agile is a Sham
#93[Obligatory plug and disclaimer: Agile professional who wrote an earlier rant "Agile Ruined my Life" http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2010/09/agile-ruined-... Also I am writing some practical how-to Agile e-books trying to undo some of the damage: http://tiny-giant-books.com/scrummaster.htm ] Just differentiate between what Agile is and how people are pushing Agile on you. Different things entirely. Agile is be…
I have nothing to say but to offer words of encouragement in your effort to write e-books to undo some of the damage.
It breaks my heart to see something that emerged from technical people to make their lives better and make them more effective be co-opted to the point where it's scorned by the same technical people who have the most to gain.
Re: Agile is a Sham
#94Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lots of meaningful things take thousands of programmer hours. Projects where those thousands of hours are meticulously planned for by non-programmers (whether by using "Agile" or any other process that sits on top of the process of programming) are fucking doomed from the jump.
The software that keeps all modern airliners in the sky is written by companies that have lots and lots of process. Do you think those software projects are doomed from the jump just because there's a lot of process involved?
The companies have a lot of process, but how do you know how the software was written? Usually I see things like a huge project that is failing while the initial prototype that works gets upgraded to production...which has often been produced by cowboys.
However, I don't work in the airline industry. I do work somewhere where one errant line of code can destroy productivity around the entire globe, brick computers, and really piss people off, and it's low process, cause the process guys can't ever get anything shipping.
As for Agile, I would suggest reading the Mythical Man Month circa 1995, the final chapter covers iterative development and makes a lot of sense, imho. Not sure why we need people with certificates selling snake oil where common sense works just fine.
Re: Agile is a Sham
#95[Obligatory plug and disclaimer: Agile professional who wrote an earlier rant "Agile Ruined my Life" http://www.whattofix.com/blog/archives/2010/09/agile-ruined-... Also I am writing some practical how-to Agile e-books trying to undo some of the damage: http://tiny-giant-books.com/scrummaster.htm ] Just differentiate between what Agile is and how people are pushing Agile on you. Different things entirely. Agile is be…
Exactly. And this shit makes me furious. I got involved with this stuff before the term "Agile" existed. At the beginning, it was a bunch of professionals (mostly developers) sincerely trying to find better ways of working. Extreme Programming, for example, came to be because the developers were really interested to experiment with how their team got stuff done. It breaks my heart that in the ensuing decade it has tu…
The only people that screwed it up are the ones that monetized it. They made it
a) rigid based on their definition b) defined themselves as experts in making teams agile based on their rigid definition c) charged for it
PS. These same guys, once they couldn't squeeze anymore blood out of the Agile stone, moved onto a new marketing term, "craftsmanship". They now charge the same clients, even more money, to teach them this "new way of doing it ..... right".
Plus, they make a mint on the books they hastily write and push out.
I eagerly anticipate that successor to Craftsmanship.
Re: Agile is a Sham
#96This is a terrible, polemic and content-free post. Please stop submitting stuff like this.
So is your comment, please stop making them.
Re: Agile is a Sham
#97Earlier quoted context omitted.
I enjoy programming with other programmers. But I don't collaborate well with people who don't know a fucking thing about programming who try to put process on top of the process of programming. Cowboy is a complement. It doesn't mean "lone ranger" or "asshole", it means lazy, hard worker who takes the shortest path to greatest output. So, yup. Cowboy here.
I don't collaborate well with people who don't know a fucking thing about programming who try to put process on top of the process of programming. Fair enough. But what about someone who does know a lot about programming, who runs his team using agile methods. Could you collaborate well with that person?
HN's algorighm thinks I'm a spammer and wouldn't let me reply, but really, itsnotme.
I could collaborate well with that person. If I like the product and the people enough I'll work on a team that uses "Agile". But I do it knowing that process is not communication, and that standups are a fucking joke.
Re: Agile is a Sham
#98Earlier quoted context omitted.
Lots of meaningful things take thousands of programmer hours. Projects where those thousands of hours are meticulously planned for by non-programmers (whether by using "Agile" or any other process that sits on top of the process of programming) are fucking doomed from the jump.
The software that keeps all modern airliners in the sky is written by companies that have lots and lots of process. Do you think those software projects are doomed from the jump just because there's a lot of process involved?
Processes implemented to save lives are the product of death, and the process is put there to slow things down. Ask your friendly agile consultant how much their process is going to slow down your company.
They will tell you that Agile will make you faster. They might even be right, if it's replacing a bigger, worse process that already exists on top of the process of software development. But if it's adding a layer, it's going to slow you down and get in your way.
Re: Agile is a Sham
#99Earlier quoted context omitted.
Don't you think that agile proponents are frequently using a No True Scotsman here? That is, Statement: No Agile Team would do X. Response: An Agile Team did do X. Statement: Well, no True Agile Team would do X. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman )
So what? It doesn't absolve the team of the fact that they're doing Agile incorrectly. Call them whatever you want, they're still Doing It Wrong.
The hitchhikers guide to the galaxy gave the most succinct advice for how to fly. You fall down and miss the ground.
The upon reading this and in the absence of any native examples of flying animals the pelzo decided to directly follow this grand advice. After 100 billion attempts, over a billion broken bones, and hundreds of millions of deaths the great zaxuvex finally discovered that the correct way to do so is to reach orbital velocity above the atmosphere in a space ship that provides an internal atmosphere, comfortable temperature, shielding from harmful radiation, chemical rockets to slow down, AND most importantly a heat shield and parachute for reentry. Two weeks later a vising dignitary introduced the idea for wings which was was deemed heretical and started the 42 great war.
PS: If your 'training courses' don't provide enough information to actually implement your process in the real world then it's practicably worthless.
Re: Agile is a Sham
#100Earlier quoted context omitted.
> [Obligatory plug and disclaimer: Agile professional You sell process for a living. You claim, "After all, it's not like you can have no process at all. Whatever you're doing already is a process." When you said that, you accidentally got something right. Programming is a process. It's the only one that fucking matters if you're a shop that sells software. All the other process comes from snake oil salesmen as yours…
Interesting. So how do you build things that take thousands of programming hours to complete? What about projects involving complex rulesets requiring legal input and/or HR input? Programming is a means to an end. The end is solving some problem. For many problems programming is a small part of the overall solution.
I meant to answer your original question, but HN decided I couldn't post any more under "itsnotme".
"So how do you build things that take thousands of programming hours to complete?"
By programming for thousands of hours. Through the process of programming, I'd try things out, use what works, dump what doesn't, write tests first where it makes sense, last where that makes sense, not at all where that makes sense, buy hardware where it will save me time and money or work better, interface with it by writing code, step back, look at some mistakes, rip them out, replace them with nothing if I can, or less bad mistakes if I can't replace them with nothing.
You know, programming.
If in addition to my process of programming someone wants me to tolerate some other meddlesome process, well, it depends how meddlesome that process is. If they want me to use a particular IDE, they can fuck right off. If they mandate I write code in a particular order, they can fuck right off.
On the other hand, if they are awesome people with awesome product, I'll engage in standups (or whatever), and I'll write my cards and move them along (or whatever), and burn down my time (or whatever). But I won't pretend that it part of the process of programming, or that it's speeding things up.