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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#541

Post by kaba0 »

brailsafe wrote: post #537
faeriechangling wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you can only run Safari on iOS Apple mandating WebKit is the only thing holding v8 back from a total monopoly, while WebKit itself has no chance of being a monopoly in the forseeable future, so I doubt there's a good anti-competitive case to be made for forcing Apple to stop doing this. It would only accelerate the monopolisation of the browser market if this happened. It would be good for consumers in the short ter…

I'm surprised nobody else mentioned this, but V8 is just a JavaScript engine, not a Web Browser or web rendering engine. Blink is the name for the broader web rendering engine behind Chromium and a number of other browsers. So WebKit, Blink/Chromium, and Gecko are the main ones to my knowledge.

Webkit has a shared history with Blink, so even the two alone would result in the most portable tech having only a single, forked implementation.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#542

Post by sznio »

crop_rotation wrote: post #259
stardek wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To a large degree I think this is more true than not. Putting style aside, it's ridiculous that we don't have basic common designs that "just work". I want a kettle and toaster that are expected to work for decades and can be easily repaired if something goes wrong. There are some reasons to differentiate (e.g. I want shoes that work well and last but people have different foot support needs) but in my ideal world we…

The problem is once you do that that particular design will stop improving fast. e.g what if phones were legislated to all be open to everything and everyone and standardized at Symbian S40.

I'd actually be for it if it was S60.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#543

Post by whizzter »

Keyframe wrote: post #493
faeriechangling wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you can only run Safari on iOS Apple mandating WebKit is the only thing holding v8 back from a total monopoly, while WebKit itself has no chance of being a monopoly in the forseeable future, so I doubt there's a good anti-competitive case to be made for forcing Apple to stop doing this. It would only accelerate the monopolisation of the browser market if this happened. It would be good for consumers in the short ter…

You're advocating against v8 monopoly, where no one is forcing it down on anyone, by holding a candle to the actual enforced monopoly of WebKit? Where's consumer choice in this and how about having an actual choice dictate what is used and what isn't? Let me quote from a familiar case: "Antitrust laws ensure one company doesn't control the market, deplete consumer choice, and inflate prices. Microsoft was accused of…

Consumers chooses iPhones (and indirectly Safari), yes the bundling has some bad effects.

But in the bigger picture it's currently really the only thing keeping developers somewhat true to making cross-browser sites working for Firefox users, since the Firefox devs has a larger chance of keeping up with what works on ChromeEdge+Safari rather than keeping up with the ChromeEdge pace alone, do you really trust Google (and MS) not to abuse things if FF and Safari became irrelevant?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#544

Post by kaba0 »

Spivak wrote: post #471
Kinrany wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So less freedom is good because freedom is good but any extra freedom will be stolen anyway? This is an idiotic take.

Yes, you're poorly explaining the difference between freedom-as-in-liberty and freedom-as-in-anarchy and then calling it idiotic. You are literally more free if there were no laws about murder but your actual real life freedom would be reduced because you of all the precautions you now have to take. Apple right now is operating as a de facto governing body forcing developers on the platform to follow its rules that w…

While I agree with the distinction between freedom-as-in-{anarchy, liberty), I don’t think this argument stands in case of Apple. Their OS is very secure and has a top notch sandbox - that’s the actual defense boundary on their devices. They do barely any AppStore checks.

I think the optimum would be a well-hidden (like android dev mode, click 6 times on whatever option), but possible sideloading without hacks like AltStore/7-day resigns, etc. Maybe they shouldn’t even allow other stores, just apps - as installing is a very specific permission.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#545

Post by stouset »

ssklash wrote: post #44
ROFISH wrote: post #35

Good! I'm looking forward to having to uninstall a crypto miner on my mom's phone because it told her the only way to play a slots app is to allow third-party apps.

The "won't someone think of my mom" argument. Somehow we get by just fine on x86 with arbitrary software being allowed, but for IOS it's unthinkable?

> Somehow we get by just fine on x86 with arbitrary software being allowed

Are we living in alternate realities?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#546

Post by enriquec »

crvdgc wrote: post #250
ROFISH wrote: post #35

Good! I'm looking forward to having to uninstall a crypto miner on my mom's phone because it told her the only way to play a slots app is to allow third-party apps.

This sounds like a false dichotomy. It's possible to opt-in for a "dev" mode which gives the user more choice, but not implemented because of the potential profit loss. Imagine arguing against press freedom because a relative might fall for some disinformation.

Ironically, forcing Apple to implement features to enable third parties is quite literally forced speech.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#547

Post by pxoe »

frizlab wrote: post #202
cmdli wrote: post #184

I, for one, do not look forward to having to sideload Facebook, Instagram, Google, Gmail, and every single other megacorps app just because they want to track my every click. I would rather give power to Apple than all the other companies.

Same here. Side loading will open the door to a whole new category of malware/adware/crapware. Yes of course the App Store is not perfect but at least Apple has control over it and can stop things when they are degenerating. I’m not looking forward to a new Facebook VPN that will “enhance my phone,” available through side loading only, that I will of course never install but which my grandma or another unsuspecting e…

if all that makes their phones secure is "not allowing sideloading" or "not allowing different browser engines", then that's a pretty shit security

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#548

Post by kaba0 »

martimarkov wrote: post #332
kibwen wrote: post #318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fucking good. Seconded. Perpetually baffled by the so-called hackers in all of these threads arguing vociferously against user freedom.

You have freedom to chose the platform.

Where do you want to get punched, in the stomach or in your face?

Similar dilemma.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#549

Post by ElFitz »

wyre wrote: post #510
Keyframe wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're advocating against v8 monopoly, where no one is forcing it down on anyone, by holding a candle to the actual enforced monopoly of WebKit? Where's consumer choice in this and how about having an actual choice dictate what is used and what isn't? Let me quote from a familiar case: "Antitrust laws ensure one company doesn't control the market, deplete consumer choice, and inflate prices. Microsoft was accused of…

Years of propaganda and throttled data from Google to use Chrome doesn’t give a lot of real consumer choice. Even now there’s programmers only product testing in Chrome that makes some web services not work in anything but Chrome.

Some even display a pop up telling you to please go install Chrome if you want to use their B2B SaaS service your company just purchased.
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