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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

appleinsider.com

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#511

Post by m463 »

nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

I'd like to do (good) things apple doesn't allow, such as owning my phone.

I'd like to put in a firewall, I'd like to prevent apps from doing things I don't want them to do, and I'd like to run my own apps (without asking permission).

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#512

Post by ValentineC »

nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

> It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use.

What I really want is an up-to-date browser even if iOS stops being supported on an old phone of mine. (And they seem to be dropping support faster, what with iOS 17 not supporting the iPhone X — introduced in 2017 — without any legitimate hardware reason.)

It's ridiculous that Safari and the underlying WebKit engine only get updated with every accompanying iOS release.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#513

Post by Andrew_nenakhov »

thebruce87m wrote: post #141
Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #67

It is understandable why Apple wants to keep its current grip on iOS indefinitely. What I don't understand is why some people defend it, on this very forum! One commenter simultaneously defended gay marriages - "if you don't like gay marriages, don't get married to gays" - and defended the Apple's monopoly - "I like that there is only one Appstore and developers won't force me to sideload".

I don’t want something shittier that I will invariably have to learn about to remove from my families phones. It suits me fine if it doesn’t exist at all.

Just because optional sideloading might create a mild inconvenience for you, you support the abusive policy that creates a huge problem for millions of users.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#514

Post by bpye »

ThatPlayer wrote: post #437
bpye wrote: post #278

Does the DMA allow for a distinction between system applications and those that are sideloaded - or do they expect that any sideloaded app should have access to all entitlements, including those that are private today? I've read summaries of the DMA but it's not obvious.

What's considered a system application? Messages and Siri that come with the system? Well they include those too. They basically define it as "the same entitlements that a competing Apple app gets" > the gatekeeper shall allow business users and alternative providers of services provided together with, or in support of, core platform services, free of charge, effective interoperability with, and access for the purpos…

I wonder how you’d handle something like Siri’s background activation word detection?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#515

Post by ankurdhama »

thehappypm wrote: post #489
labrador wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. Who doesn't want Apple to be more open?

To me the closed ecosystem is just a nice user experience. Explaining to my mom how to download Whatsapp is simple with just one way to do it. All apps are downloaded the same way. There’s one login. One payment method. Everything kinda “just works” and Apple does its best to keep apps sandboxed and secure. To the typical end user, a more open environment is just more choice and more headache.

Having more choice means that in case you need them you can use these other choices, it doesn't mean you will have to explain to someone about all these different choices and how they work, your current explanation of how to download apps will still be valid. Also, these new choices will not impact the sandbox implementation of core iOS.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#516

Post by MagicMoonlight »

nunez wrote: post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

I don’t want Facebook to be able to say that I can’t use Whatsapp unless I install their rootkit store.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#517

Post by MagicMoonlight »

grishka wrote: post #209
cmdli wrote: post #184

I, for one, do not look forward to having to sideload Facebook, Instagram, Google, Gmail, and every single other megacorps app just because they want to track my every click. I would rather give power to Apple than all the other companies.

A good solution to apps wanting to track your every click is not organizational but technical. Just don't give them APIs for reliable cross-app tracking. That advertising ID? It simply does not need to exist at all . Same for all the attribution bullshit. Besides, sideloading enables installation of modded apps giving users more choice.

That’s what we have now… Once the platform is open you can’t deny them API access.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#518

Post by Vespasian »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #442
nicbou wrote: post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage is pretty rare. Europe is on WhatsApp

The opposite is true in the US. I'd guess that 95%+ of iOS users in the US text primarily on iMessage (excluding those who are primarily texting international contacts). I'm fact, that's probably the biggest reason I think Apple has been able to abuse their iMessage stance for so long: the EU has been far stronger at regulating compatibility and interoperability (we can thank the EU for the fact that we can finally g…

It would be pretty hard to argue that iMessage has a market domineering position in Europe and therefore not appropriate for the EU to regulate it.

That being said, I hope that once the other services are forced to interop apple will have no choice than to do the same.

It's probably hard to imagine in the US but people here absolutely will abandon iMessage over this. Their market position is weak enough that none of my family/friends/acquaintances who own an iPhone has even considered asking for anything but the "default" aka WhatsApp.

Sometimes Signal or telegram but never iMessage.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#519

Post by TapWaterBandit »

jandrewrogers wrote: post #86
ssklash wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "won't someone think of my mom" argument. Somehow we get by just fine on x86 with arbitrary software being allowed, but for IOS it's unthinkable?

We don't "get by just fine". Computers overflowing with naively self-installed adware/malware is a recurring and persistent problem with some relatives of mine. Nothing you can say stops them from inadvertently doing it again, they simply lack the sophistication to understand, and then complaining that their computer is slow or doesn't work anymore. Putting these people on iOS is a godsend, these kinds of issues don'…

Am I misunderstanding something or couldn't this just be made an optional setting?

So users can lockdown the ability to install stuff if they want without overcoming various hurdles (maybe allow users to add customised message so if a user tries to do it a message will pop-up saying "Your Son/Daughter/whoever has said you should never disable this! Call them before doing this if someone has asked you to!").

I feel like there is so many options/info hidden from consumers about their devices that really shouldn't be. And preventing it or hiding it only really serves the companies themselves, not the end user.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#520

Post by emsy »

cmdli wrote: post #184

I, for one, do not look forward to having to sideload Facebook, Instagram, Google, Gmail, and every single other megacorps app just because they want to track my every click. I would rather give power to Apple than all the other companies.

How about not installing them at all?
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