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China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

economist.com

101–110 of 197 posts

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah. China has its stance consistently since 1940s, it is not that they woke up about Taiwan in 2010. It is more of a scorched earth plan. There isn't much of interest to US beyond TSMC. As long as it doesn't fall in hand of China, rest it will be OK to loose.

It would only have been since 1949, and they gave up their best chance to retake Taiwan (while the Americans weren’t interested) to meddle in Korea instead. The Americans don’t really care that much about TSMC. Its fabs are highly dependent on parts, material, etc from more secured countries, which is by design, or they would have never allowed semiconductor industries to be setup in Korea, Japan, and Taiwan. They ha…

> ... they gave up their best chance to retake Taiwan (while the Americans weren’t interested) to meddle in Korea instead.

My understanding of the timeline/causation in 1950 is the other way around. Initially China was only going to offer largely moral support to North Korea. On June 27 the U.S. Seventh Fleet was sent to the Taiwan Strait to prevent PRC from taking Taiwan. This was a factor in China's decision to enter the Korean War in October.

https://history.state.gov/milestones/1953-1960/taiwan-strait...

> U.S. policy toward East Asia in the early Cold War contributed to the tensions in the Taiwan Strait. In late 1949 and early 1950, American officials were prepared to let PRC forces cross the Strait and defeat Chiang, but after the outbreak of the Korean War in June 1950, the United States sent its Seventh Fleet into the Taiwan Strait to prevent the Korean conflict from spreading south. The appearance of the Seventh Fleet angered the Chinese Communists, who transferred their troops poised for an invasion of Taiwan to the Korean front. This served to delay military conflict in the Strait until the United States withdrew its fleet after the Korean War.

http://www.inquiriesjournal.com/articles/1069/explaining-chi...

> In fact, at the initial stage, China took a passive response to the situation in North Korea. Besides moral support for Kim, the only material support provided by Beijing at the time was to send approximately 14,000 Korean Chinese who were then serving in the PLA back to Korea.8 However, three subsequent events dramatically changed Beijing’s attitudes.

> The first is that on June 27, the U.S. Seventh Fleet was sent to the Taiwan Strait to ‘neutralise’ the situation. ...

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#102

> America had asked Taiwan to manufacture biological weapons at a lab run by the island’s defence ministry, the report claimed. This reminds me a lot of the (presumably Russian disinformation) story that flitted around American conservative spheres early in the Ukraine war saying that the US gov was setting up bio weapon labs at the border with Russia and that's why the Russian invasion was justified. Funny how the e…

The volume of Chinese disinformation inside China about Ukraine from Feb 2022 thru dec 2022 was amazing. Bio weapons, assassination plots, secret missiles - pick your favourite conspiracy theory and it was out there. The CCP UnitedFront don't seem to realise the damage they are doing to their own political image. And for fellow HN readers no matter what you read about China always bear in mind that politics comes fir…

I don't think it's about "politics" it's about power and the rejuvenation of the Chinese nation. It is about what they say it's about it. This is just the way they are going about it.

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#103
Ignoring the details (bioweapon etc.), US Skepticism is very warranted for Taiwan (and all Asians/Europeans IMO).

Considering what US is doing to TSMC and how Taiwan is likely going to be stripped of all valuable assets in the future for NatSec, and how Germany is now being de-industrialized after the bombing of Nordstream by US & allies, I'd be extremely wary of the people running US if I care an iota about my own people.

Those of us who remember how Japan was made to kneel by the BoJ following US diktats know very well that Kissinger's remark 'to be a friend of US is fatal' is deadly serious.

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#104
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We can repeat the 2020 election the “most safe and secure” election ever. Funny how Russia and China sat that one out huh? Guess they’d let the other team win one.

Neither Russia or China has ever interfered with vote totals. No one has ever claimed that

Well, someone did claim this during the 2020 cycle, but in a quite bizarre and totally unsubstantiated way: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/06/arizona-repu...

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#105
post #92

One phenomenon I don’t think psyop brigades seem to have caught on to, is that by flooding comment sections with controversial statements they invite vigorous debate, which ends up boosting engagement. In the end they bring more attention to the stories they are attempting to squash.

I think these new slated rules are actually more taking a leaf out of the Western democratic book: it's a distraction. It's a loss-leader. Yes, a small sacrifice that makes you (the gov) look ridiculous. But the gain? Immeasurable.

Because you essentially get people obsessed over trivialities, content-free but emotionally compelling non-issues that are guaranteed to channel energy but not move the needle.

It's a key tenet of democratic stability: you need to pump the media full of innumerable social debates that partition the market, so you get people fighting themselves over trivialities rather than focusing their considerable energies on change for real issues.

So I see this as more a proof of the "coming of age" or new sophistication of the Chinese "psyop brigades" as you call them, rather than an indication of incompetence that you seem to think.

Small caveat that I haven't decided about yet is: some of this could be to create such an overly oppressive "rules based" atmosphere that people are so afraid of tripping over any law they just toe the line more generally. But I'm not sure, this is directly non-Confucian:

In governing, don't try to force issues or you'll turn away from what is right. The more prohibitions you have, the less virtuous people will be. The more weapons you have, the less secure people will be

And anti-Lao Tzu:

  "The more laws and restrictions there are,
  The poorer people become.
  ...
  The more rules and regulations,
  The more thieves and robbers."

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#106
post #32

China is having an internal information crackdown. It's approaching the nutty level, which probably indicates that Xi is losing it. The latest thing is a crackdown on clothing "detrimental to the spirit of the Chinese people."[1] [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-66737272

Xi is losing it everywhere; - internal purging of military senior officials. 5 out of the 7 senior officials are now missing in action. https://www.newsweek.com/china-defence-minister-li-shangfu-m... . Very similar to Mao Zedong's purging of his generals https://www.hoover.org/research/lin-biao-incident-and-people... . China has had to transfer generals from airforce and army to head up missile force, because so many…

Can you provide some sources about the flood destroying military forces and Hangzhou government raiding temples?

About Huawei stores being empty, some seems pretty crowded at least on the first day. https://youtu.be/YFeE2xHQVRI?si=2-tqnqXj8aF8srN6

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every country has bio labs. The insinuation which your sources refute is that they are bio-weapon labs.

I'm sorry, but I really don't see the difference. If they do gain of function to create a virus, that virus can be used as a weapon. You can't separate the two.

That's like calling ping a DoS tool.

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#108
post #32

China is having an internal information crackdown. It's approaching the nutty level, which probably indicates that Xi is losing it. The latest thing is a crackdown on clothing "detrimental to the spirit of the Chinese people."[1] [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-66737272

What's an alternate hypothesis? I.E., why might they be doing this besides going insane? So, an alt explanation that avoids the China-crash forever story?

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#109
post #32

China is having an internal information crackdown. It's approaching the nutty level, which probably indicates that Xi is losing it. The latest thing is a crackdown on clothing "detrimental to the spirit of the Chinese people."[1] [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-66737272

I'd suggest taking a look at the specific clauses under discussion, esp. as the draft laws are still in the public commentary stage. See clauses 2 and 3 of Article 34 in ( https://www.chinalawtranslate.com/en/public-security-adminis... ) and consider them in the context of clauses 1, 4, 5, and 6. Note the recurrent mentions of 'heroes and martyrs' and 'wars of aggression' within these clauses, something a casual read…

Tut tut, I thought you would have learned from the HK protests that no serious current event commentator is ever really interested in what the law actually says. I.E., The Basic Law.

Re: China is flooding Taiwan with disinformation

#110
Russia is also a major actor in the adversarial disinfo space. Especially against the US, NATO and the EU.

background: worked on a US State Department project to help counter them. Technically China's anti-Taiwan efforts too. But we cared most about Russia. I did, anyway.

my side project, Slartboz, also deals with the topic of adversarial propaganda & disinfo, and the efforts of amoral, anti-democratic nation state actors like Russia and China.

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