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FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

ftc.gov

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Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#531

Post by libraryatnight »

mrraj wrote: post #444
jollofricepeas wrote: post #52

FBA seller here. A lot of mom and pop businesses (~$20 million) have been built on Amazon over the past 10 years. Most of us are in the $250k to $5 million dollar range. The impact of Amazon’s monopoly power is felt big time by us as we’re being squeezed with no place left to go online especially post-iOS change. Our second option used to be the Facebook/Instagram/TikTok to Shopify connection but with that being dead…

From the Bloomberg article : "Chuck Gregorich, who sells fire pits and outdoor furniture, says turning a profit on Amazon is getting harder. One of his popular fire pits costs $200, of which Amazon takes $112 for its commission, warehouse storage, delivery and advertising. That leaves him with $88 to pay the manufacturer, ship the product in from China and cover his overhead." I have a hard time sympathizing here. Th…

I agree but I also don't want to punish legit businesses that are also impacted just because this guy sounds like a pointless middleman and I don't feel bad for him specifically. Seems like a real problem and he's just a bad spokesperson

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#532

Post by Kerb_ »

civilitty wrote: post #467
musicale wrote: post #393

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would believe those are actual brand names. Has anyone created software or a web site to generate hilarious Amazon brand names automatically? Edit: Looks like there are lots of AI-fueled Amazon/business name generators. Most of the names weren't as funny as your examples, though I got some good ones (electrofakes.com, etc.) from prompts like "low quality tech products" and "cheap knockoff technology products." Anot…

My favorites are HILETGO, KeeYees, AITRIP, "Oi ya gai", Treedix, and Gikfun. I bought products from all these Amazon vendors last year, hilariously they're still around.

YoDoIt, the iFixIt knockoff, always gets a laugh from me

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#533

Post by sib »

gameoverhumans wrote: post #216
my123 wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Leverage on music was much bigger because of the position that Apple had at the time, together with CDs not having DRM. That was a unique situation that couldn't be replicated later for video and other media sadly.

Some cursory web searches reinforce an assumption I had: Amazon absolutely dominate the eBook sales market, with figures from 65-80% of all sales being indicated. So how can you make the case that Amazon doesn't have "leverage" to negotiate DRM-free publishing? > together with CDs not having DRM I don't recall printed books ever having any form of "DRM".

In fact, Amazon does allow eBooks to be sold through the Kindle store without DRM, and many are sold that way. It's completely up to the discretion of the publisher.

Whereas I have many eBooks purchased years ago from Apple's store that I can only read on Apple devices, not on my Kindle.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#534

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

taeric wrote: post #507
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #496

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand you are asserting that, and what a lot of us are asserting after reading all the allegations is that it is a strong case You can disagree, and that's fine, I'm not saying your personal disagreement specifically is support for Amazon, it's just that's the optics of the individuals disagreeing with the case the FTC presented here, for a lot of us, seem to be corporate/capitalism worship and/or personal dis…

I'd love to see a longer take regarding what makes you think these claims are strong. Especially with the backdrop of losses the FTC has been having, though, these feel weak. It sucks that the only real commentary out right now is the expected appeals online. So, we'll see. Hopefully quickly.

Seems to me, the case is so strong, the complaint speaks for itself. It's convinced me.

I'd love to see a longer take, though, addressing the specific points in the complaint, and what makes you think each one is weak. It sucks that most of the opposition I've seen is along the lines of "if Amazon isn't allowed to engage in anticompetitive behavior, the FTC is coming for your mom and pop shop next"/"where's the line???" and similar FUD (with a fair measure of "they don't own 100% of the market so it's not a monopoly so it's not anticompetitive" thrown in, too)

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#535

Post by sokoloff »

BeetleB wrote: post #486
mrraj wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the Bloomberg article : "Chuck Gregorich, who sells fire pits and outdoor furniture, says turning a profit on Amazon is getting harder. One of his popular fire pits costs $200, of which Amazon takes $112 for its commission, warehouse storage, delivery and advertising. That leaves him with $88 to pay the manufacturer, ship the product in from China and cover his overhead." I have a hard time sympathizing here. Th…

Yes - some of the complaints seem legitimate (e.g. burying search results really far low - that hurts me as a buyer, and hurts the seller). But complaining that you need to use Amazon's warehouses to be part of Prime? That's rather obvious! You can always sell as non-Prime. Many do and are successful at it! Basically, Amazon allowed many businesses to exist by creating a very convenient way to sell. Chances are a lot…

Seller Fulfilled Prime is also a thing: https://sell.amazon.com/programs/seller-fulfilled-prime

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#536

Post by sib »

callalex wrote: post #104
my123 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(disclaimer: Amazon employee) For that one, it's mandated by publishers. There's nothing that can be done for e-readers from vendors that don't support third-party applications. Amazon e-books are accessible on Android and other platforms in addition to Kindle devices. Kindle is also not locked to only ebooks from Amazon, but third-party DRM schemes are not supported. Calibre for example comes with good tooling for t…

Amazon could leverage their market power to benefit the consumer like Apple did when they eliminated music DRM.

Or not...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Apple_Inc.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#537

Post by 22289d »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #474
steveBK123 wrote: post #427

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correct. My point is that people only casually familiar don't realize how vertically integrated the FBA model is. FBA is like eBay, PayPal, FedEx, Google Ads and a warehouse all wrapped into one. But they charge you varying types of fees based on different measures, at different times, for each of those parts of the stack. And you cannot cross shop, mixing and matching other vendors in to keep them honest on pricing.…

Why shouldn't they? You've arranged to have product you didn't create shipped to a warehouse you don't operate to be stored by a system you don't maintain to be sold on a storefront under a brand you made up and that you didn't create to be fulfilled by a shipping apparatus instead of you going to the UPS Store. What exactly are YOU doing here that merits a payday? Mediating a relationship between Amazon and a Chines…

> What exactly are YOU doing here that merits a payday?

The hard part. Finding a product people want.

If that were so easy, Amazon would just be a store, no sellers. That part they can't do themselves.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#538

Post by sib »

m463 wrote: post #334
my123 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(disclaimer: Amazon employee) For that one, it's mandated by publishers. There's nothing that can be done for e-readers from vendors that don't support third-party applications. Amazon e-books are accessible on Android and other platforms in addition to Kindle devices. Kindle is also not locked to only ebooks from Amazon, but third-party DRM schemes are not supported. Calibre for example comes with good tooling for t…

What I can't figure out is that many books (such as Tor) have a notice: At the Publisher's request, this title is being sold without Digital Rights Management Software (DRM) applied. Are these encrypted anyway on kindle?

Because Amazon allows publishers to choose to sell eBooks without DRM. If an eBook sold in the Kindle store has DRM, the publisher chose to have it that way.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#539

Post by danielmarkbruce »

BizarroLand wrote: post #518
abduhl wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the problem here? If you don’t have a durable competitive advantage then you’re going to get eaten up. First movers should not get a license to continue to reap a profit in a competitive market absent real innovation, which would come in the form of reputation (trademark) or technology (patent). Drop shippers who can be displaced by Amazon in the way you discuss have neither. They already made a profit on the…

The problem is being both the platform and a competitor. They have an inside advantage that no one else on the planet outside of ebay and Alibaba (and its ilk) have. It entrenches them and enriches them unjustly. They make profit off of their competitors and have the option of destroying anyone who rubs them the wrong way without repercussion. The capitalistic market cannot speak on the matter as there is a monoposon…

They started out as the competitor. They have always been that. They opened up their capabilities to competitors. They didn't have to.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#540

Post by 22289d »

mvdtnz wrote: post #458
jollofricepeas wrote: post #52

FBA seller here. A lot of mom and pop businesses (~$20 million) have been built on Amazon over the past 10 years. Most of us are in the $250k to $5 million dollar range. The impact of Amazon’s monopoly power is felt big time by us as we’re being squeezed with no place left to go online especially post-iOS change. Our second option used to be the Facebook/Instagram/TikTok to Shopify connection but with that being dead…

How much do you personally shop at Amazon versus other outlets?

Once I figured eBay out, it's about 90% eBay, 5% Amazon, 5% other.

Amazon does a great job of making it appear that they are the best option to shop at. But they really aren't. Even with Prime Free Shipping, if you search eBay correctly - the prices are likely better there.

I know what some are probably thinking, eBay is full of scammers and knockoffs etc. That's not really accurate. Especially when you figure out how to use it correctly.

eBay policies are designed to protect the buyer. If the item doesn't arrive, you're getting a refund. Every. Single. Time. If you're unhappy with the item: tell the seller. Most will make it right for fear of negative feedback, and knowing they'll lose the INAD. INAD? If the seller wont fix it, file an Item Not As Described claim. You will win and they'll be forced to either refund you or accept a return.

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