Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

weblogs.asp.net

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

81–90 of 104 posts

Re: ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

#81

Post by meow »

rbanffy wrote: post #76
meow wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to mention, most startups either fail in 3 years or (hopefully) be in a position to pay for the extra servers.

It would be interesting to measure if the odds of failure somehow correlate with chosen technology stack.

Considering that most startups fail for reasons other than technical (running out of money, lack of traction, founders moving on) I don't think any correlation will be that meaningful. It will be interesting see a plot of the type of the startup (social, b2b, retail etc) versus the stack though :)

Re: ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

#82

Post by sker »

gecko wrote: post #71
ConstantineXVI wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd pay to have a fully compatible .NET stack on OSX/Linux. Most of our backend code is C#; outside of having to use Windows I've actually found it very pleasant to work with. No need for a full MSVS port, just a working VM/library and build tools (+ maybe an IntelliSense daemon to plug into editors). It'd be interesting to see MS get back to their roots this way.

I'm completely with you: I absolutely love .NET, but I really wish that I could write server-side components for and on OS X or Linux. Mono's getting less painful for server-side work, for what it's worth; if you have light needs, or can easily restart the service on a regular basis, you may find it usable. But I'd definitely avoid deploying an MVC 3 app.

> if you have light needs, or can easily restart the service on a regular basis, you may find it usable. But I'd definitely avoid deploying an MVC 3 app

Can you further elaborate on that one? Because that's exactly what I would like to do.

Re: ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

#83

Post by facorreia »

jroseattle wrote: post #10

> start accepting community developed features into their platform Guthrie has done a great job of making developers on the Windows platform feel included and involved. While Microsoft's product offerings slip, Guthrie continues to grow the community of developers, maybe not in quantity but most certainly in quality. Before Guthrie, an offering like today's announcement never would have seen the light of day.

Microsoft product offerings slip how? What I see is outstanding products being delivered such as Windows Azure, Windows Server 8, SQL Server 2012, System Center 2012.

Re: ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

#84

Post by rbanffy »

meow wrote: post #81
rbanffy wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It would be interesting to measure if the odds of failure somehow correlate with chosen technology stack.

Considering that most startups fail for reasons other than technical (running out of money, lack of traction, founders moving on) I don't think any correlation will be that meaningful. It will be interesting see a plot of the type of the startup (social, b2b, retail etc) versus the stack though :)

I am not so sure technology stack is entirely unrelated to failure rate. The stack you pick may influence iteration speed, hosting options, developer availability, uptime, reliability, security and costs.

Twitter would have failed had their scalability problems persisted.

In fact, I remember "Six Degrees". It was more or less Facebook, but in the late 90's. IIRC, they ran Cold Fusion on Windows.

Re: ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

#85

Post by gecko »

sker wrote: post #82
gecko wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely with you: I absolutely love .NET, but I really wish that I could write server-side components for and on OS X or Linux. Mono's getting less painful for server-side work, for what it's worth; if you have light needs, or can easily restart the service on a regular basis, you may find it usable. But I'd definitely avoid deploying an MVC 3 app.

> if you have light needs, or can easily restart the service on a regular basis, you may find it usable. But I'd definitely avoid deploying an MVC 3 app Can you further elaborate on that one? Because that's exactly what I would like to do.

Mono had two issues we hit in production for server processes:

1. The GC was poor. There's actually a couple of pieces to this one: it's non-compacting, so your app gradually slows down; and (because it's Boehm) it has to guess at what's a pointer, and sadly just doesn't do a good job, so you gradually leak RAM through no fault of your own. The new GC, which I think is called SGen, is a precise collector, so I assume that it fixes the memory leaks, but it's still non-compacting, meaning you're probably going to want to restart the process every once and awhile to prevent serious heap fragmentation.

2. Mono gradually became unstable the longer it ran. This grew exponentially worse as you added threads.

Both of these issues can be circumvented by having multiple processes in a load-balanced configuration and simply restarting them every once and awhile. Heck, IIS does that with App Pool recycling anyway, and it doesn't have these issues.

The FogBugz team still uses Mono to host FogBugz on Unix systems, I believe by going the reboot-every-so-often route, so I assume they've found ways of living with the above two constraints.

Re: ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

#86

Post by dos1 »

rbanffy wrote: post #77
dos1 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What part of hosting apps on Windows was painful to you? I actually prefer to host my apps in Windows when I'm able and the technology stack supports it. I don't need to set up new apps often, but when I do, it's many orders of magnitude faster for me to get an app running on Windows vs. Linux. Linux works great as a server OS once I get everything set up and configured correctly. I never need to think about it again…

> I dread having to set things up on a new Linux machine That's what Puppet, Chef, package management and a host of other tools such as virtual machine images and unattended installs are for. > There's always some hardware that doesn't install correctly Most server-grade hardware you buy from reputable sources is exquisitely Linux-compatible. I never had any problem with that. > it takes an odd sequence of commands t…

You're totally right. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not a sysadmin by trade. I've had the misfortune of having to deal with sysadmin work because I was the only one willing to dive in. So you mention Puppet, Chef, the distro's package manager of choice. These are all great tools but they have a learning curve. My point was that hosting apps on MS requires much less in the way of configuration and learning. You can just get things working.

Re: ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

#87

Post by rbanffy »

dos1 wrote: post #86
rbanffy wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I dread having to set things up on a new Linux machine That's what Puppet, Chef, package management and a host of other tools such as virtual machine images and unattended installs are for. > There's always some hardware that doesn't install correctly Most server-grade hardware you buy from reputable sources is exquisitely Linux-compatible. I never had any problem with that. > it takes an odd sequence of commands t…

You're totally right. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not a sysadmin by trade. I've had the misfortune of having to deal with sysadmin work because I was the only one willing to dive in. So you mention Puppet, Chef, the distro's package manager of choice. These are all great tools but they have a learning curve. My point was that hosting apps on MS requires much less in the way of configuration and learning. You can…

Indeed, but it's harder to automate. And automating tests is very important.

Some test cycles here involve the automated deployment of VMs based on machine templates that are then configured using Puppet. If we were to do that with Windows, those tests would never run.

Re: ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

#88

Post by meow »

rbanffy wrote: post #84
meow wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that most startups fail for reasons other than technical (running out of money, lack of traction, founders moving on) I don't think any correlation will be that meaningful. It will be interesting see a plot of the type of the startup (social, b2b, retail etc) versus the stack though :)

I am not so sure technology stack is entirely unrelated to failure rate. The stack you pick may influence iteration speed, hosting options, developer availability, uptime, reliability, security and costs. Twitter would have failed had their scalability problems persisted. In fact, I remember "Six Degrees". It was more or less Facebook, but in the late 90's. IIRC, they ran Cold Fusion on Windows.

You have a valid point there :)

Re: ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

#89

Post by josephcooney »

funkah wrote: post #78
acak wrote: post #6

I am a developer who has leaned towards .NET over the last few projects and one of the things that used to nag me is that the platform is a closed one (and the licensing fees can be a decent part of the cost). I was fairly certain I would migrate off it if the project ever took off seriously. And after seeing the C# love on HN on the poll for favorite programming languages last week, I realized there must be many ena…

I think .NET is great, and most of my career has been working in C#, but targeting Windows and developing on Windows is just a bummer.

mono

Re: ASP.NET MVC, Web API, Razor and Open Source

#90

Post by josephcooney »

rbanffy wrote: post #87
dos1 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're totally right. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm not a sysadmin by trade. I've had the misfortune of having to deal with sysadmin work because I was the only one willing to dive in. So you mention Puppet, Chef, the distro's package manager of choice. These are all great tools but they have a learning curve. My point was that hosting apps on MS requires much less in the way of configuration and learning. You can…

Indeed, but it's harder to automate. And automating tests is very important. Some test cycles here involve the automated deployment of VMs based on machine templates that are then configured using Puppet. If we were to do that with Windows, those tests would never run.

You can totally automate the deployment of windows machines. Maybe what you suggested the other guy did for linux you should do for windows.
Post reply on HN