Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

The casino in your pocket

blog.curtii.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

231–240 of 265 posts

Re: The casino in your pocket

#231

Post by m463 »

a13o wrote: post #152

Having worked in the f2p games industry for a decade, nothing is as you perceive. Your entire reward stream is scheduled down to the coin, in spreadsheets written by people like me. I know how much you have today and how much you will have tomorrow. Any reward presentation, assume there is a loot table behind it. You see 4 cards on the screen, but there may as well be 1 big slot lever; cuz no matter where you tap you…

This is the kind of thing people should understand about "modern entertainment".

My moment of realization was when I found out the truth of those "claw machines" that pick up a fuzzy stuffed animal. Turns out the claw itself is rigged so that it rarely grasps tightly.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#232

Post by pauldenton »

nwellinghoff wrote: post #176
redka wrote: post #141

Couple years back I joined a paid accelerator program to write a mobile game under the wings of some company. My eyes were opened after having a fun time creating my game when the time came to publishing and tweaking. My mentors from the company explained to me the _requirements_ for it to succeed. Basically every change from that point was about manipulation. In order for the game to be high on the charts it needs t…

Why doesn’t anyone who tells such stories also reference the game and the company that made it? Wouldn’t it be good to call out the actors explicitly?

It's a small industry and the walls have ears. Don't want to reduce your ability to get another job in the industry I guess

Re: The casino in your pocket

#233

Post by blastro »

doctorhandshake wrote: post #161
kikokikokiko wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Another comment, more on-topic: it may surprise some to learn that the ‘crane’ or ‘claw’ games in arcades and rest stops are also games of chance, not games of skill. They are programmed with the value of their prizes, the cost to play, and the operating margin the operator would like to have. The machine handles the decision of who wins, when." It wouldn't surprise me a little bit if it was true, since it's almost…

I’m sure there are some ‘dumb’ machines out there but on p8 you can see the basics of how a ‘smart’ machine works [pdf]: https://www.betson.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/01/E-Claw-Ser...

It's all out there in the open if you know where to look, huh.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#234

Post by aspyct »

empath-nirvana wrote: post #166
a13o wrote: post #152

Having worked in the f2p games industry for a decade, nothing is as you perceive. Your entire reward stream is scheduled down to the coin, in spreadsheets written by people like me. I know how much you have today and how much you will have tomorrow. Any reward presentation, assume there is a loot table behind it. You see 4 cards on the screen, but there may as well be 1 big slot lever; cuz no matter where you tap you…

I know at least for Hearthstone, they are fairly transparent about the odds for pulling various cards and even have a pity trigger that gives you the rarest cards if you haven't gotten one in a while (all of this is documented), so it is possible to have a relatively successful F2P game that doesn't lie to the players about this stuff.

Interestingly though, this may be documented, but is it easily accessible? I played Hearthstone in the past and never knew of such documentation.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#235

Post by MandieD »

lacrimacida wrote: post #159
MandieD wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you're right to be horrified, and I'm the mom of a three year old who will look for things to take apart if left to his own devices. Current screen policy: only "his" laptop, only videos I've picked out for him (currently, he's into Alphablocks and Numberblocks), laptop gets closed and put up for the rest of the day the instant he whines about having to stop watching for whatever reason.

Wait, your 3 year old has a laptop already?

As soon as he can figure out how to type the password and how to access a browser, it’s his.

For now, it’s a small TV that receives one channel run by a station manager who has a thing for counting and the alphabet.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#236

Post by MandieD »

phone8675309 wrote: post #230
lacrimacida wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, your 3 year old has a laptop already?

Why the judgemental attitude? If I had a child and I wanted to make sure that they could only watch the videos I chose for them then I would have a laptop for them to use, and I could absolutely see myself calling it "their laptop" in casual conversation.

“His” laptop that is locked down to the point that I will be proud if/when he manages to see anything I didn’t put on there, versus all the less-restricted devices in the house.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#237

Post by sneak »

a13o wrote: post #226
chinathrow wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My advice is to play these games if you understand all this and have friends to play it with. My advice to law makers is to regulate these games into the ground. Your statements enforce my world view. My kid will not play these games.

I encourage regulation. I don't think it will have an existential impact on the industry, however.

https://youtu.be/F9cO3-MLHOM

Regulation is always crafted to benefit incumbents and widen their existing moat.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#238

Post by numpad0 »

flir wrote: post #172
numpad0 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On that aesthetic, and promised satisfaction - I once read some offhand BBS post that catharsis works slightly differently in gambling and other entertainment, such that, the anticipation phase is built up the same, but the release phase is crippled. This is so that the player is only partially satisfied and left frustrated in seek for a deserved full gratification, which closes the loop. One clear demonstration of t…

It's a Skinner box. If the pigeon never gets a reward, it'll lose interest in the key. If it always gets a reward it'll hit the key, but not that much because the reward is always the same and its boring. If the reward only occurs sometimes, the pigeon'll go nuts hitting that key. We're the pigeons, and the "randomness" is constantly being tweaked to make sure we never get bored.

The point is, if the reward not just occurs rarely but were actually-kinda-disappointing, the pigeon gets even crazier than it had been huge jackpots, somehow.

Discrepancy between perceived and mathematical expectation is a big factor in keeping us hooked. So techniques to exaggerate the former are used.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#239

Post by TedDoesntTalk »

otikik wrote: post #124
bakugo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99% of mobile games do. If you want to keep your children away from these things, you don't really have much of a choice beyond not letting them have a phone at all.

One possible alternative to banning the phone or total surrender could be finding proper games for them, instead of these slot-machines-in-disguise. One would need alternative App browsers for that, the default ones don't allow filtering out apps with in-app purchases since they are too lucrative. Here's one: https://appapp.io/us/genre=Games;has_iap=false;supported_dev...

See also this site for safe kids mobile games:

https://www.commonsensemedia.org/

Hopefully they will open a store once Apple allows 3rd party stores

Re: The casino in your pocket

#240

Post by algo_trader »

a13o wrote: post #152

Having worked in the f2p games industry for a decade, nothing is as you perceive. Your entire reward stream is scheduled down to the coin, in spreadsheets written by people like me. I know how much you have today and how much you will have tomorrow. Any reward presentation, assume there is a loot table behind it. You see 4 cards on the screen, but there may as well be 1 big slot lever; cuz no matter where you tap you…

Thank u for your blog. Very thoughtful with helpful references.

Any books u recommend on gamifications?

Post reply on HN