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FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

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Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AWS works this way too but I’ll get dogpiled by Amazon sycophants and other people who have built their careers around getting witless companies sucked into the Amazon machine.

Steve gave examples for the different kind of fees and that it's hard to track them and why. I wanted to ask you for examples for AWS. Would be good to know concrete pitfalls and traps.

egress fees, inter-DC transfer fees, IP fees, ebs storage fees, transactional fees on things that are transactional. If you don't carefully engineer everything you'll get left with a $15,000 AWS bill. This doesn't cost Amazon anywhere near $15k to provide, so they just "waive" the fees if you promise to be a good little user.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#352
post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

wow... that BB article makes me sad. https://archive.ph/yw3Bv In 2016, they collected 35.2%. In 2022, they collected 51.8% in fee. That's insane.

Yup, it makes me wonder what % of consumer goods for sale via FBA are from retail theft rings. 52% fees on stuff that cost you $0 ain't bad. Otherwise, it's very very bad.

The 52% is dominated by small crap items that basically cost $0 in bulk from China (cables, phone cases, etc)

On these items Amazon fully realizes they can charge 90% and the seller is still making a profit, so they do.

If you're selling appliances or TVs or computers the % is not nearly that bad.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#353
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer, this doesn't really hurt me. I get good products for cheap delivered in two days or less. I don't see how the FTC is helping me here.

>I get good products for cheap delivered in two days or less. You would be getting the same products for cheaper, that's the point. Their "two days or less" hasn't been true for several years. "Prime" to me basically has become "sometime in the next week" and there's a massive warehouse within 30 miles of my house.

I cancelled Prime, and I always still get free shipping. Yes it's longer than 2 days, but a lot of the time it arrives early anyways. I really feel like it is better without Prime. I get more "early arrivals" now and I used to just get 2 day shipments in 3-5 days anyways.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#354
post #5

I wish they would add ebook DRM to the list. Amazon has essentially locked the Kindle so that it can only purchase from Amazon and Amazon ebooks can only be used on the Kindle. On top of that, they offer no way of transferring ebooks and, AFAIK, offer no way to remove DRM after a work enters the public domain.

Adding a new book to a kindle is as simple as sending an email with a PDF attachment.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#355
post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not a defense of Amazon. A neighbor of mine who makes high end silver jewelry was doing fine with the gallery he used (in Santa Fe). The gallery collected about 30% of his sales price in fees. Another gallery approached him, asked to represent him instead. They took 50% in fees. He switched anyway. His income went up (and stayed up). Presumably the new gallery provides some combination of better environs, mor…

"But it shouldn't be assumed that the high fees necessarily mean reduced income for the original seller." I agree. It just gets passed down to the customers. Most of my shock was directed at the 50% increase in fee in just a few short years. You can't do that without having a lot of leverage.

> It just gets passed down to the customers.

That's a common but not an accurate belief:

As a business owner pricing a product or service, if your costs increase you can either take the marginal cost out of your net income or increase the price.

Taking it out of your net income is simple: You keep prices the same, revenue remains the same, and profit drops a bit.

Increasing the price is more complex; you are changing one component in a system of dynamic feedback: When you raise the price, fewer people buy your product, so the outcome may be less revenue and less profit. The impact of price changes on purchasing is called elasticity: Some products - e.g., fancy restaurant meals - are easily forgone and are thus price sensitive. Others, like necessary healthcare, can be priced extortionately and people will still buy it.

Arguably, if you are the mythical optimal manager, you've already priced your product to maximize revenue and therefore any change will decrease it. In that case, price increases will only worsen your profit.

The reason for your price increase is orthogonal to the customer's purchase decision - you raise the price, they buy less. They usually don't know and don't care why - do it for greed, to cover additional cost (and maintain your beloved profit margin), because your finger slipped on the price-your-goods app, whatever.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> others spend a lot of time attacking large companies simply because they are large This isn't the FTC's complaint but search "How Amazon treats their workers" and see why large companies get attacked. Typically the only way you're going to become this large is by abusing people in some sort of way. Amazon abuses their workers, their sellers, etc. Meta abuses their users. Google abuses their users. Uber abuses their…

absurd. Nobody is forcing anyone to work for AMZN or Google or Uber. People would simply quit if these companies were actually abusing them

Have you seen Uber's turnover rate? Most people do quit.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently product dumping isn't illegal if you do it on the internet. This wasn't even a fuzzy digital goods or services example either.

Product dumping is not illegal if you have a national newspaper that can be used to target any politician and if you make sure to contribute millions and make sure your employees do the same for the political party in power.

Do you have evidence of the Washington Post doing that?

I know evidence the contrary: The Post is clearly on the Democrat side, and it's Democrats that seek more regulation and who are suing Amazon.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#358
post #87
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The examples are listed in the article. The last point is pretty damning if they can prove it. > Biasing Amazon’s search results to preference Amazon’s own products over ones that Amazon knows are of better quality. > Degrading the customer experience by replacing relevant, organic search results with paid advertisements > Charging costly fees on the hundreds of thousands of sellers that currently have no choice but…

First, disclaimer that I do not mean my post as a reason not to pursue antitrust concerns. By all means, look for them. If they are found, make rules about them. That said, I have specific doubts. For one, search has always been crap on Amazon. I could believe they tried some of these tricks, but I confess I have my doubts they would execute on them well. For second, some of this is standard BS that retail has just a…

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Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#359
post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is it clearly anti-competitive if they are providing a better value for the consumer? When a name brand has market power and charges a premium for a basic product, then another company entering the market and undercutting them is great for the consumer. We can make regulations to ensure that a distributor, advertiser, retailer and the product owner engage in arms length transactions but there’s nothing inherently…

From what I understand the FTC is shifting away from the doctrine that consumer benefit/harm as the deciding factor for an antitrust case.

Okay so take the FTC out of it. Let’s say we’re writing the laws from scratch today. Why would store brand generics be outlawed?

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#360
post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're over generalizing. There are plenty of sellers that took the time to develop their own products and sell them, only to be copied and undercut by Amazon.

How is that different from Walmart selling their Great Value store brand? They see what products sell well then formulate their own cheaper alternative, maybe even giving their product better shelf placement. Every national grocer does this. It seems to be a pretty close analog yet nobody bats an eye at the practice.

> How is that different from Walmart selling their Great Value store brand?

Well for one it’s different in that store brands are often made by the same manufacturing/processing plant as the regular brand.

So not only is consent implicitly build in because the producer agreed to make the store brand variety, it’s another income stream.

And secondly the store brands typically go out of their way to differentiate themselves from the main brand to such a degree that if you hold the two boxes next to each other you wouldn’t mistake one for the other.

Thirdly they significantly undercut the other brands and sellers. They can do so because they don’t have to pay themselves a commission and all the other fees, which in turn forces the other brands and sellers to match or eek out a small price difference in which they’re cheaper in the hopes to get some sales, cutting into the already thin margins that are left after paying Amazon’s fees.

Amazon is also in a better position because of the vertical integration, they have a direct relationship with the manufacturer which cuts out the margins of the middle men (the sellers and distributors), regular sellers on Amazon have the distributor’s margins to deal with and then their own margins and as opposed to Amazon they can’t sell their items as a loss leader.

As for Walmart and similar retail, it’s a whole different situation. The manufacturer sets the price and within it, their margin. The retailer then purchases it at that price and tacks on their margin, but if it’s on the shelves then the manufacturer has been paid so there’s no risk for the manufacturer because the retailer carries the risk.

There are some nuances and exceptions, such as manufacturers sometimes being able to force a MSRP onto the retailer or a retailer being big enough to leverage a better price or a risk shifting agreement where the retailer doesn’t have to pay for delivery until the items are sold, nevertheless, in general the relationship is entirely different from the relationship Amazon has with its sellers.

And lastly, Walmart doesn’t hire people to walk beside you in the store to swiftly grab a Great Value variant and push it in your hand each time you so much as think of buying something.

The cereal factory that makes Kellogg’s cereal also making Great Value cereal is therefore not comparable to Amazon.

Amazon typically makes their Basics items look identical to the most popular brand and place it at the top of search results.

Now the original brand is forced to pay to get their item at the top of the list, and even then it’ll get second place, underneath the Amazon branded one (often barely above the fold).

Take this example of me searching for a padlock[0][1].

Not only is the Amazon branded lock identical to the one below it, it’s placed prominently at the top of the results in such a way that it’s the only product that can be seen in full.

The one immediately below it doesn’t get top spot despite being “sponsored” (i.e. paid to be prominently displayed) and if you look at the price they’re trying to be a little bit cheaper than Amazon in the hopes to generate sales but given how minor the price difference is with the Amazon branded lock, it comes across as a painful thing for them to do because it seems to me as a meaningless difference (but admittedly that’s me reading into things).

The issue is that when you’re the platform holder that sets the fees for sellers, controls what people see, have insider knowledge on sales and you use that to benefit your manufacturing and sales division, then you have too much control and are abusing your powers imho.

Brick and mortar retailers don’t have this much control over and information on their suppliers.

0: https://pasteboard.co/AZRfDpAtXw4f.jpg

1: https://pasteboard.co/VEFULgwx2IgB.png

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