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FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

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Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#241

Post by eh_why_not »

skilled wrote: post #228
eh_why_not wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... during the recent Google updates (core and "helpful")... What were those updates exactly?

https://status.search.google.com/incidents/nBtYtBeex4GYBbdDS... https://status.search.google.com/incidents/53diuQvcEsgzqXTPB...

Thanks. For others like me not in the SEO world, extracted below the links for what "core updates" [0] and "helpful content updates" [1] are, according to Google.

[0] https://developers.google.com/search/updates/core-updates

[1] https://developers.google.com/search/updates/helpful-content...

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#242

Post by steveBK123 »

pcurve wrote: post #171
jollofricepeas wrote: post #52

FBA seller here. A lot of mom and pop businesses (~$20 million) have been built on Amazon over the past 10 years. Most of us are in the $250k to $5 million dollar range. The impact of Amazon’s monopoly power is felt big time by us as we’re being squeezed with no place left to go online especially post-iOS change. Our second option used to be the Facebook/Instagram/TikTok to Shopify connection but with that being dead…

wow... that BB article makes me sad. https://archive.ph/yw3Bv In 2016, they collected 35.2%. In 2022, they collected 51.8% in fee. That's insane.

Yup, it makes me wonder what % of consumer goods for sale via FBA are from retail theft rings. 52% fees on stuff that cost you $0 ain't bad. Otherwise, it's very very bad.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#243

Post by steveBK123 »

lvl102 wrote: post #101
jollofricepeas wrote: post #52

FBA seller here. A lot of mom and pop businesses (~$20 million) have been built on Amazon over the past 10 years. Most of us are in the $250k to $5 million dollar range. The impact of Amazon’s monopoly power is felt big time by us as we’re being squeezed with no place left to go online especially post-iOS change. Our second option used to be the Facebook/Instagram/TikTok to Shopify connection but with that being dead…

Not to be rude but you made millions on the backs of Amazon. Now you’re complaining that you have competition.

Do you tip your landlord?

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#244

Post by WalterBright »

pcurve wrote: post #171
jollofricepeas wrote: post #52

FBA seller here. A lot of mom and pop businesses (~$20 million) have been built on Amazon over the past 10 years. Most of us are in the $250k to $5 million dollar range. The impact of Amazon’s monopoly power is felt big time by us as we’re being squeezed with no place left to go online especially post-iOS change. Our second option used to be the Facebook/Instagram/TikTok to Shopify connection but with that being dead…

wow... that BB article makes me sad. https://archive.ph/yw3Bv In 2016, they collected 35.2%. In 2022, they collected 51.8% in fee. That's insane.

> they collected 51.8% in fee. That's insane.

Back in the 80's, my company sold compilers through third party mail order houses. They all demanded providing the product to them at 50% of their selling price.

It's what having somebody else advertise, collect orders, process payments, ship, and deal with returns is always going to cost you.

If it's unacceptable to your business, sell directly. My company did both.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#245

Post by pseudosavant »

_uhtu wrote: post #3

I'm honestly not sure how you could make the case that they aren't maintaining and abusing monopoly power. I mean they literally blatantly copy the designs of other companies who sell on amazon, then put their own results for their own products higher in search results than what they copied off of. It's incredibly blatantly anti-competitive.

I get the sentiment behind this reaction that most people have. I just have a hard time understanding how it is any different than brick and mortar companies using their sales data to determine which products they should have a store brand version of. Costco, Walmart, Target, etc. all do this, and have been doing it for decades.

At a Costco, they'll often stop selling the brand name product if they introduce a "Kirkland Signature" version. Amazon doesn't take down competing products when they launch Amazon Basics versions.

Not really intending to defend Amazon, because they are indefensible, but by big corporate standards, I don't see how they are anywhere near as bad as Walmart. And nobody is trying to break Walmart up.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#246

Post by hinkley »

_uhtu wrote: post #3

I'm honestly not sure how you could make the case that they aren't maintaining and abusing monopoly power. I mean they literally blatantly copy the designs of other companies who sell on amazon, then put their own results for their own products higher in search results than what they copied off of. It's incredibly blatantly anti-competitive.

I ate a lot of popcorn during the Microsoft trials - plural - and the received wisdom from previous generations that was already being forgotten at the time is this bit of torch-passing, which I now impart to you.

Anti-trust cases usually only succeed once the court of public opinion has turned against the monopolist. If the public is still in favor or ambivalent, then you will not find the political will to successfully prosecute your case.

But once the company has abused their power enough to turn the public against them (arrogance in addition to greed), then the charges tend to stick.

My read is that there is no amount of lobbying that can be successful once the pitchforks have come out. But it could also be how many whistleblowers you can hunt up. Once your brother is giving you shit for working for the Evil Empire, it's a lot easier to get up the courage to be a witness.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#247

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

Spivak wrote: post #73
munk-a wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By the metric of market control and by the metric of being able to leverage anti-competitive practices without feeling any market pushback.

I wish we could make this more well-defined because this is every company ever entering a new market supported by their existing business. If you actually outlawed all of it it would kill every medium or larger business (which isn't to say I'm not opposed to outlawing it) because that's just the game. The business that has to take on funding and pay interest will struggle against the conglomerate with a war chest lar…

it was well defined enough for the FTC to bring this suit with a pretty detailed complaint, I think we're good there

"other companies" don't have the same market power here, or indeed engage in the same anticompetitive behavior, but again, that's all explained when you read the FTC complaint detailing the actual behaviors in question

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#248

Post by catiopatio »

kmeisthax wrote: post #189
babypuncher wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Businesses got along just fine before all that intense user tracking was even possible. If your business absolutely needs it to survive, then your business doesn't deserve to survive. "boo hoo, I can't invade my users privacy anymore! Waaaaah! It's unfair"

A lot of the old machinery for small businesses to find their customers - e.g. news, hobbyist magazines, etc - is no longer around, and so there's nothing for those businesses to return to. The Internet, and specifically advertising companies, killed them off. What's unfair is not that they can't violate privacy, but that Amazon still can.

Weren’t those outlets even less targeted?

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#249

Post by kibwen »

runako wrote: post #188

Without engaging the merits of this particular case, I do think there is an interesting takeaway about which companies wield even more power than Amazon (and Big Tech more generally, since Google and Meta are also discussed as likely targets of similar suits). Notably: health insurers. They're an oligopoly whose revenues total something like 4% of US GDP. They engage in anticompetitive practices, and the end result i…

The irony here is that Amazon is literally a health care provider, after acquiring One Medical.

Break all these companies up, before we find ourselves even deeper in a cyperpunk dystopia.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#250

Post by burkaman »

mindslight wrote: post #213
jstarfish wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because these companies and CEOs have a lot of resources should not automatically kick in the "David v Goliath" instinct that most people have David vs. Goliath was a story about overcoming subjugation and oppression. A lot of people have been very much put-upon by the metaphorical Goliath here in a number of ways. There are piss bottles available as evidence.

I'm amazed at how much the idea of pissing into a bottle offended the sensibilities of journalists. Given a choice between pissing in bottles or having the time saved as a longer lunch break, I'd guess most would chose the lunch break. The never ending screw turning cost optimization is the problem, but using that example lands really flat.

Why would anybody need to make that choice?
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