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FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

ftc.gov

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Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#121

Post by Robotbeat »

cj wrote: post #54
taeric wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Examples? Because, by most evidence that I am aware of, they aren't actually doing that well? Certainly not bad. But not clear to me that they have any real online advantage now that other stores have online payment that they can use between them. I've certainly been far more willing to buy direct from brands for the past few years.

The examples are listed in the article. The last point is pretty damning if they can prove it. > Biasing Amazon’s search results to preference Amazon’s own products over ones that Amazon knows are of better quality. > Degrading the customer experience by replacing relevant, organic search results with paid advertisements > Charging costly fees on the hundreds of thousands of sellers that currently have no choice but…

The last one is the most problematic IMO

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#122

Post by my123 »

criddell wrote: post #93
my123 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(disclaimer: Amazon employee) For that one, it's mandated by publishers. There's nothing that can be done for e-readers from vendors that don't support third-party applications. Amazon e-books are accessible on Android and other platforms in addition to Kindle devices. Kindle is also not locked to only ebooks from Amazon, but third-party DRM schemes are not supported. Calibre for example comes with good tooling for t…

> For that one, it's mandated by publishers. I believe the publishers want DRM. I'm not sure they want DRM that effectively locks in their readers to the Amazon ecosystem. I don't believe publishers would be upset if I could directly purchase books from Apple, Google, Kobo, or any other similar vendor directly on the Kindle. Is the audiobook market different? I know Cory Doctorow for one would like to sell his audio…

> but they require DRM

There's no option to sell on Kindle's own store with DRM disabled indeed.

edit: A poster has a link saying otherwise. Will ask what's up on the Audible side then.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#123

Post by loldk »

Justsignedup wrote: post #19

remember that time that amazon was bleeding like 5 million a day just to make sure they can destroy diapers.com? by selling diapers at a loss, which was numbers that diapers.com couldn't compete with given that they didn't have another business to rely on, then forced diapers.com to sell to amazon because they had no other option? And this came out last time they were doing monopolistic inquiries against amazon. Yet.…

That's what these discussions are for: to discover solutions and obstacles.

Have you ever heard of the monkeys and ladder metaphor?

Things need to change. It's great to be skeptical, but not if you're not also optimistic at the same time.

Monopolies are bad for many reasons, not just because arbitrary "rules" or whatever you think is easily dismissed, but because of the opportunity costs that even the owner of the profits incurs. We're not talking about money or status or power, but actual meaningful change of the total composition of their culture & society and the world. They are literally preventing themselves from experiencing a world that gives them everything they can't have now and clamor and hurt themselves chasing after. It's the ultimate irony.

So yes, you should have hope. There is NOT a "good" reason for being a greedy parasite. People have just forgotten and/or been manipulated into believing in fake power. This false faith (fear) is literally what enables these fake leaders like Jeff Bozos the clown to succeed.

Please next time contribute more to the conversation than just whine.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#124

Post by SoftTalker »

xyst wrote: post #50

Decouple Amazon Warehouse division from Amazon Web Services (AWS largely subsidizes losses incurred by warehouse division), then we will see change. Right now FTC going after low hanging fruit. But we all know Amazon will challenge it in court, appeal, appeal, appeal, pay the reduced fine, slow roll any changes, and business will continue as usual. Break up the tech giants and each individual unit cannot survive as-i…

Yep. I'd say Amazon should be split at least four ways: AWS, their delivery/fulfillment operation, the web shopping platform, and the "Amazon Basics" and other product brands.

Edit: just saw that ihaveajob posted the same idea in another reply.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#125

Post by lvl102 »

sudobash1 wrote: post #113
lvl102 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not to be rude but you made millions on the backs of Amazon. Now you’re complaining that you have competition.

> on the backs of Amazon. They were using the Amazon platform for what it was intended for, and Amazon made more millions off of them. It was supposed to be a mutually beneficial relationship.

And I am saying what Amazon is doing is not anticompetitive at all. These “companies” that sell on Amazon are basically glorified trade companies that arbitrage low cost Chinese manufacturing. I don’t feel bad for them at all. If they are hurting so bad, go sell the goods on Shopify store or Walmart/Target. Oh, what’s that? They charge more than Amazon? Interesting…

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#126

Post by my123 »

Uvix wrote: post #103
my123 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(disclaimer: Amazon employee) For that one, it's mandated by publishers. There's nothing that can be done for e-readers from vendors that don't support third-party applications. Amazon e-books are accessible on Android and other platforms in addition to Kindle devices. Kindle is also not locked to only ebooks from Amazon, but third-party DRM schemes are not supported. Calibre for example comes with good tooling for t…

The same was true for music once upon a time, but that didn't stop Apple from negotiating for DRM-free with the publishers.

Leverage on music was much bigger because of the position that Apple had at the time, together with CDs not having DRM.

That was a unique situation that couldn't be replicated later for video and other media sadly.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#127

Post by yomlica8 »

Justsignedup wrote: post #19

remember that time that amazon was bleeding like 5 million a day just to make sure they can destroy diapers.com? by selling diapers at a loss, which was numbers that diapers.com couldn't compete with given that they didn't have another business to rely on, then forced diapers.com to sell to amazon because they had no other option? And this came out last time they were doing monopolistic inquiries against amazon. Yet.…

Apparently product dumping isn't illegal if you do it on the internet. This wasn't even a fuzzy digital goods or services example either.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#128

Post by jpk2f2 »

criddell wrote: post #5

I wish they would add ebook DRM to the list. Amazon has essentially locked the Kindle so that it can only purchase from Amazon and Amazon ebooks can only be used on the Kindle. On top of that, they offer no way of transferring ebooks and, AFAIK, offer no way to remove DRM after a work enters the public domain.

You can easily use ebooks from anywhere on the Kindle. However, agreed on the DRM. Blindsided me when I tried to open some comics I had purchased on my computer (to read them in color). Luckily others have already made tools to remove that DRM...

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#129

Post by NickC25 »

callalex wrote: post #104
my123 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(disclaimer: Amazon employee) For that one, it's mandated by publishers. There's nothing that can be done for e-readers from vendors that don't support third-party applications. Amazon e-books are accessible on Android and other platforms in addition to Kindle devices. Kindle is also not locked to only ebooks from Amazon, but third-party DRM schemes are not supported. Calibre for example comes with good tooling for t…

Amazon could leverage their market power to benefit the consumer like Apple did when they eliminated music DRM.

Exactly. The publishers need Amazon, and Amazon doesn't need the publishers. They have more than enough power to be able to dictate terms.

Apple realized this and was able to bully their way to a deal that worked for Apple, and the labels had no real ability to counter Apple. Amazon has yet to do so.

Arguably, Amazon has substantially more market power now than Apple did back in the Jobs days when they were building out iTunes and negotiating with the major labels.

Re: FTC sues Amazon for illegally maintaining monopoly power

#130

Post by sschueller »

lvl102 wrote: post #114

Out of all the natural tech monopolies, Amazon is the ONLY one that did the opposite of exercising market power. They actually brought fast shipping to the market. A decade ago, you had to pay a crap ton of money to ship things even two days. They forced the incumbents such as Walmart to change. They’re constantly improving e-commerce. Heck they even opened up aws and created an entire industry. Amazon did more to re…

They straight up copied products in their store an then listed theirs higher in search results. There was a famous instance of a bag. You can't be more monopolistic than that.

They also got insight into every states future plans (which are secret for some reason ) when they offered to build new HQs but then decided not too. This gives them a huge advantage over anyone else who wants to setup a nation wide logistics service.

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