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FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

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Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#201
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Australia my first broadband internet connection worked like that - though when you went over, your bandwidth was heavily throttled until the end of the month unless you upgraded your plan for the month. As inconvenient as it is, honestly I think data caps are fair pricing. The load difference between a light internet user and a heavy user is orders of magnitude of capacity for the ISP to deal with. Having a flat…

Sonic charges you $30/month for gigabit and $50/month for 10gigabit if I recall correctly. No data caps. These prices are similar to what fiber costs in Europe (or at least France). Data caps are not fair pricing in a competitive environment but it seems that way when you have a duopoly of competition that collude on plans, pricing, and messaging.

Plus taxes, and fees, and equipment rental. Also that's only an introductory rate with a 1 year term. 1Gbps ends up being ~$70/mo off-contract.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#202
post #131
post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's take the null hypothesis that these incentives push all video streaming to Apple+. The total bandwidth hasn't changed, all that's happened is that is it's only streamed over Apple+ now. How does this help with their spectrum constraints?

T-Mobile USA has a pretty user friendly version of this on many/most of its plans. If a music streaming service participates to label its traffic, that data is zero rated for eligible users. If a video streaming service participates to label its traffic and limit bandwidth (advertising says 480p, but I think it's really a bitrate cap), then data is zero rated for eligible users. On plans with a high speed data cap, u…

So are you trying to sell the ability to graph who has seen what? Because that's essentially what that scheme does. No more dumb pipes, you're handing over tons of business recod based metadata out to ISP's to inevitably monetize, which, oh, coincidentally, waives any expectation of privacy legally speaking between the endpoints given our current judicial attitude toward Third Party Doctrine.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#203
post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

T-Mobile USA has a pretty user friendly version of this on many/most of its plans. If a music streaming service participates to label its traffic, that data is zero rated for eligible users. If a video streaming service participates to label its traffic and limit bandwidth (advertising says 480p, but I think it's really a bitrate cap), then data is zero rated for eligible users. On plans with a high speed data cap, u…

So how do I sign up to get my home media server added to be zero-rated?

T-mobile says:

"If you are a streaming service provider click here[1], send us an email and we'll get back to you to begin the process. T-Mobile will review all submissions to ensure identification of video stream and technical requirements, including optimization for mobile viewing."

They do have a requirement that "Only lawful and licensed video content is eligible for the offering" And that you be capable of making the stream identifiable as video content and do adaptive bitrate streaming (target of 1.5 Mbps)

The only public documentation for service providers I found was in the consumer faq [2] under "I’m a streaming service provider – how do I learn more?"

It's quite probable that they won't engage with a home media server, because you're operating under fair use rather than an explicit license, or because there's too many individual home media servers and some home media servers serve media that's unlicensed and also not within the scope of fair user. But it doesn't hurt to ask and see what you get back.

Alternately, a paper from 2016 [3], suggests you could make your content available in a form that appears to be one of the supported services, and likely get mischaracterized as that service and have your data zero-rated as a result. Not sure if anyone is still running video over http in 2016, but it's worth a try. It should be apparent if it works, as when it does, T-Mobile will limit streaming bandwidth to 1.5 Mbps.

[1] bingeon@t-mobile.com

[2] https://www.t-mobile.com/tv-streaming/binge-on

[3] http://david.choffnes.com/pubs/bingeon_sigcomm16.pdf

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If net neutrality is not relevant anyways, why are ISPs so dead set against it?

Because it kept them under the FCC's thumb as common carriers, forcing them into inefficiencies to comply with regulations. There's a ton of stuff I want the govt. more involved with on the internet: data privacy, clamping down on CSAM, section 230 issues... forcing ISPs to take a total hands off approach to every traffic source on their pipes? That wasn't one of them. NN harmed ISPs' incentive to innovate. I have si…

> I have since gotten faster speeds at cheaper prices. What would the NN crowd say if they had gotten their way

Probably nothing because you would still get faster speeds at cheaper prices just like you had for the decades prior even though the regulatory environment was more strict. Without supporting evidence you might as well be claiming that the rooster crowing causes the sun to rise.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#206

I believe it's supposed to be "U.S. Democrats", not "us Democrats".

On this site, I'm not sure it makes much of a difference. Shockingly to me, someone else in this thread writes how this is a conservative site... Well that guy must have a wildly different perspective from me!

On a global scale, the Democrats in the US are extremely conservative.

"There are two major parties in America - a conservative party, and a very conservative party".

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#207

One of the biggest arguments I remember being made back when net neutrality was a hot topic was that ISPs would bundle and sell specific websites as tiered plans. Infographics like this one [1] were shared widely. Has this happened in the US? I’ve definitely seen ISPs start to apply data caps and throttling, but haven’t seen the aforementioned packaging (at least with the major ISPs). I ask because this is one of the…

If net neutrality is not relevant anyways, why are ISPs so dead set against it?

There are more complex aspects of net neutrality beyond "companies can't make consumers pay a Facebook surcharge".

One that I remember in detail is interconnect fees. Some companies like Netflix operate at such a scale that they're constrained by physical reality as much as network policies. So to provide good service, it's often necessary to deploy additional physical connections between the ISP and the Netflix CDN.

Separately, such connections are widespread foundations of the Internet itself. In that context they're typically settlement-free, with providers on both sides working cooperatively to get the bits where users want them. For Netflix, providers typically require a fee to interconnect, because they wouldn't otherwise want to accept the maintenance costs of this link which serves no purpose other than providing Netflix.

So Netflix pays a fee that other organizations with an interconnect don't have to pay. Is that a net neutrality violation? Netflix argues yes - they say it's just a backdoor to discriminate against Netflix traffic. But you can see why ISPs would be concerned about a rule that they can't charge random CDNs for plugging in stuff to their servers.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#208
post #176

This is good, but it's so obvious this was a super low priority thing for the Democrats. It's been almost three years since they took power, and they let the FCC sit in an Ajit Pai-inspired limbo for most of that time. They hit a roadblock and just stopped for years instead of adapting.

>They hit a roadblock and just stopped for years instead of adapting.

When did they stop? Gigi Sohn was nominated in 2021 and was repeatedly renominated until she withdrew this year. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gigi_Sohn#FCC_nomination

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#209
post #176

This is good, but it's so obvious this was a super low priority thing for the Democrats. It's been almost three years since they took power, and they let the FCC sit in an Ajit Pai-inspired limbo for most of that time. They hit a roadblock and just stopped for years instead of adapting.

> It's been almost three years since they took power, and they let the FCC sit in an Ajit Pai-inspired limbo for most of that time.

There ought to be a name for this fallacy, like "alternating dictatorship single color lump-government."

Pretty much from day-one the Biden administration was trying to get a new FCC member to the understaffed commission, however with the slimmest possible 51-49 Senate majority it only takes one "blue dog" Democrat (or one heavily reliant on industry donations) to block it all. [0] That state of affairs continued until the latest attempt finally passed this month. [1]

[0] https://prospect.org/politics/democratic-majority-at-the-fcc...

[1] https://www.commerce.senate.gov/2023/9/cantwell-applauds-sen...

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#210
post #117
post #19

It really seems unnecessary at this point. Now that we have satellite based internet and 4G/5G are legit competitors to regular wire based ISPs it just seems that the market has solved this by itself. Sure, Comcast _could_ still start doing prioritization. But honestly I’d be a lot more worried about how Google/Meta/Microsoft are using your data for GenAI.

It seems unnecessary thanks to states that passed net neutrality laws.

So I should be thanking those states for Starlink?
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