The casino in your pocket • Hacker News Board

Re: The casino in your pocket

#191

Post by chinathrow » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 2:52 PM UTC

a13o wrote: post #152

Having worked in the f2p games industry for a decade, nothing is as you perceive. Your entire reward stream is scheduled down to the coin, in spreadsheets written by people like me. I know how much you have today and how much you will have tomorrow. Any reward presentation, assume there is a loot table behind it. You see 4 cards on the screen, but there may as well be 1 big slot lever; cuz no matter where you tap you…

> My advice is to play these games if you understand all this and have friends to play it with.

My advice to law makers is to regulate these games into the ground. Your statements enforce my world view. My kid will not play these games.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#192

Post by meristohm » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 2:59 PM UTC

dbancajas wrote: post #185

dannyw wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I played F2P games for a number of years and spent probably thousands of dollars on one. I don't regret it. I made a lot of friends, one of whom I still hang out in real life, learned leadership skills, and it was a pleasurable pasttime. I don't think it should be demonised.

how do you make friends from an online mobile game?

would make friends over chat. I had some friendly interactions with other Hearthstone players, and could see how we might have established friendships (I did playing WoW, though the game was the glue and I only have the good memories of those shared experiences now).

I finally pulled the plug on videogaming, though, because I found it too compelling; when everything else pales in comparison, and all I think about is the game, and after playing I don't feel very good (as opposed to after reading, for example), it's time to recognize my limitations and stop. I'm still riding out the withdrawals, as autumn is a time where I feel especially drawn to that escape, but I'm confident it'll get easier and I'll continue to thank myself for making the leap.

I do need to actively remind myself that my experience is not universal, and that videogames can be part of a healthy and/or social life.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#193

Post by meristohm » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 3:09 PM UTC

xcdzvyn wrote: post #76

hristov wrote: post #37

This is pretty screwed up, because it kind of trains your brain to be a gambling brain. To crave the instant gratification, the high of risk taking etc. I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. This will at least prevent children from having their brains rewired. Of course this w…

> I think the time has come when android and ios should make a special versions of their online shops for children and teenagers and simply ban those types of games from those shops. IMHO this shouldn't [have to] be any of Apple or Google's business. It's a parent's responsibility to parent their child, not some conglomerate's.

I upvoted this comment because it seems like an opinion that is not uncommon, and I want this visible so others reading the responses have some context.

I do not agree with the opinion that the only responsibility with child-raising lies with the parent. Schools, businesses, government, random people on the street; my opinion is that it would be best if we all felt an obligation to help young people learn and grow into healthy adults. If not an obligation, then at least a shared value. There are so many people I will never meet, and it still feels right to support their well-being. I could see this perspective still being a selfish one, based on my experiences around the world and feeling enriched by a diversity of cultures and perspectives.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#194

Post by Workaccount2 » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 3:09 PM UTC

lacrimacida wrote: post #159

MandieD wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you're right to be horrified, and I'm the mom of a three year old who will look for things to take apart if left to his own devices. Current screen policy: only "his" laptop, only videos I've picked out for him (currently, he's into Alphablocks and Numberblocks), laptop gets closed and put up for the rest of the day the instant he whines about having to stop watching for whatever reason.

Wait, your 3 year old has a laptop already?

My sister was ardently opposed to screens for my niece.

She quickly capitulated when she learned that iPads are magical nannies that will totally occupy your child and give you precious time to get other stuff done.

So "screen but only with approved content in moderation" became the norm.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#195

Post by IntrepidWorm » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 3:12 PM UTC

xcdzvyn wrote: post #174

IntrepidWorm wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be perfectly clear, most addicts understand that their addiction is killing then, but caring about that pales in comparison to the addictive urge to continue using. It's not some cerebral choice- once addicted, you are no longer in control of your body, or it's urges. With that said, we as a society do have a responsibility to protect children - free access to heroin (for instance) would be incredibly harmful to c…

> most addicts understand that their addiction is killing them Of course, yeah, I meant it more in the "no rational actor would choose to use heroin" sense :)

We're all irrational actors, though. Various life events drive people towards drug use. It doesnt have to be a rational decision: a split second moment of desperation is all it takes. And heroin is just _that_ addictive.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#196

Post by idkwhoiam » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 3:15 PM UTC

a13o wrote: post #152

Having worked in the f2p games industry for a decade, nothing is as you perceive. Your entire reward stream is scheduled down to the coin, in spreadsheets written by people like me. I know how much you have today and how much you will have tomorrow. Any reward presentation, assume there is a loot table behind it. You see 4 cards on the screen, but there may as well be 1 big slot lever; cuz no matter where you tap you…

You have just described my experience with Diablo Immortal

Re: The casino in your pocket

#197

Post by ziddoap » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 3:24 PM UTC

giraffe_lady wrote: post #179

dannyw wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I played F2P games for a number of years and spent probably thousands of dollars on one. I don't regret it. I made a lot of friends, one of whom I still hang out in real life, learned leadership skills, and it was a pleasurable pasttime. I don't think it should be demonised.

That still makes you a "social drinker" in this context. We need to hear from the 30 rack a night folks to get a fuller picture.

They said they've spent "thousands" on a single mobile game.

We might just have different standards, but that's past "social drinker" status to me. I don't know anyone in my social circle (online or offline) that have spent that much on a mobile game, and my social circle games a lot.

How many thousands does someone have to spend to move past "social drinker"?

Re: The casino in your pocket

#198

Post by Joker_vD » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 3:24 PM UTC

a13o wrote: post #152

Having worked in the f2p games industry for a decade, nothing is as you perceive. Your entire reward stream is scheduled down to the coin, in spreadsheets written by people like me. I know how much you have today and how much you will have tomorrow. Any reward presentation, assume there is a loot table behind it. You see 4 cards on the screen, but there may as well be 1 big slot lever; cuz no matter where you tap you…

Off-tangent, but: IMHO all games should have pity counters for random loot drops. With millions of players, the likelihood that someone will flip the coin 20 times and get 20 tails is actually quite high. Just exaggerate the middle of the bell curve and cut off the tails entirely, please, who cares if it's no longer normal? Not the players.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#199

Post by mholm » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 3:34 PM UTC

ziddoap wrote: post #197

giraffe_lady wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still makes you a "social drinker" in this context. We need to hear from the 30 rack a night folks to get a fuller picture.

They said they've spent "thousands" on a single mobile game. We might just have different standards, but that's past "social drinker" status to me. I don't know anyone in my social circle (online or offline) that have spent that much on a mobile game, and my social circle games a lot. How many thousands does someone have to spend to move past "social drinker"?

The difference seems to be whether its social or alone. I've never spent anything on microtransactions/f2p, but I've certainly spent money on alcohol. It's a world of difference spending $100 in a night with good friends, and $50 on a night alone at home.

Re: The casino in your pocket

#200

Post by giraffe_lady » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 3:37 PM UTC

ziddoap wrote: post #197

giraffe_lady wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That still makes you a "social drinker" in this context. We need to hear from the 30 rack a night folks to get a fuller picture.

They said they've spent "thousands" on a single mobile game. We might just have different standards, but that's past "social drinker" status to me. I don't know anyone in my social circle (online or offline) that have spent that much on a mobile game, and my social circle games a lot. How many thousands does someone have to spend to move past "social drinker"?

IDK, it's not really relevant to my point I don't think. It sounds bad to me too but you're not going to argue an addict into believing they're addicted, even if they are. My understanding of gambling addiction isn't that sophisticated but I think that sort of use still puts them firmly in the minor leagues of use.

Anyway though an essential mechanism of addictions is that they are dynamic. You can interview large groups of users of any drug (and also probably gambling) who will attest to its benefits in their lives. Even if they are currently correct, some of them will later become full blown addicts. It doesn't mean they were wrong at the time, just maybe overly confident about why it suits their lives.

A common AA dark joke is that "high-functioning isn't a type of alcoholism, it's a stage in it." A lot of normal users will end up addicts, a lot of mildly problem users will progress. AFAIK the same patterns show in gambling addiction which is imo one of the major problems with these super accessible entry points into it.