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Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

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Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#21

Post by CompiledCode »

So how can I write a bot to fight the sexism in Microsoft's TV ads? You know the ones... where the husband is the bumbling idiot and the wife is the smart capable one who shuts down his plea to play golf on Sundays.

I would love to set that bot loose on all TV shows and ads. So often, a flipped situation would cause outrage of being sexist, whereas if the man is put down, it's "funny."

It really bothers me, especially with the "mancession" still going on (outside of IT) and widespread anti-male laws (in family court and other places).

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#22

Post by oskarth »

hythloday wrote: post #16

"It has been fascinating to watch the ongoing reactions. There have been complaints that we have too many bots in the channel now. There have been complaints about it spamming the channel. There were several “Make them shut up!” responses. These are not reactions I have seen the other bots elicit, certainly not with such intensity. One person even complained about the name being too long, though to his credit he real…

What I find the most fascinating is that she did everything exactly right and people still feel like she did something wrong.

She didn't go to her supervisor and she didn't turn it into a drama. Instead she fought the problem in its own arena by making a IRC-bot to combat the problem, and not only that: the IRC-bot is only selectively used in the exact situation that is seen as problematic and it does so by writing enlightening quotes! In mathematical terms: the function has the exact same range and its value is consistently higher in the absolute majority of all cases.

I honestly can't think of a better way to tackle this particular problem, and yet there's all this criticism to her approach. Really? What more do you want her to do? Her quote at the end of the article rings even more true after reading some comments here:

To me, all of this seems like typical geek behaviour: something is making them uncomfortable, and so they attack it on “rational” grounds. Most likely, they aren’t even aware of the gut reaction fueling their logic. Interestingly, the intensity of emotion seemed to carry over into subsequent discussions, including one about women in the Python community.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#23

Post by unalone »

coob wrote: post #4

I'm struggling to come up with an answer to this question: Has technology ever solved issues with social etiquette?

Technology, in and of itself, is not a solution. But technology enables us to communicate to broader audiences and in more sophisticated ways, and that can enable individual people to find solutions that didn't previously exist.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#24

Post by hythloday »

oskarth wrote: post #7
[deleted] wrote: post #3

[deleted]

I guess what you're saying is that this bot and the TWSS function should be disabled. Right?

I think if there's a Highlander rule then it's obvious that the less sophisticated bot ought to be culled. Presumably the grandparent post advocates that--especially as it's the only one that a member of the team has spoken out as having a problem with.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#26

Post by [deleted] »

unalone wrote: post #17
[deleted] wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

She SPECIFICALLY says that she's frustrated with how gendered the TWSS joke is: > I took it for granted that everyone was familiar with the “That’s what she said,” joke, but a recent conversation with a consultant friend made me realize some industries don’t feature it on a daily basis. For those who haven’t heard it a million times, the idea is that when somebody says something that could remotely be turned into a s…

[deleted]

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#27

Post by hythloday »

oskarth wrote: post #22
hythloday wrote: post #16

"It has been fascinating to watch the ongoing reactions. There have been complaints that we have too many bots in the channel now. There have been complaints about it spamming the channel. There were several “Make them shut up!” responses. These are not reactions I have seen the other bots elicit, certainly not with such intensity. One person even complained about the name being too long, though to his credit he real…

What I find the most fascinating is that she did everything exactly right and people still feel like she did something wrong. She didn't go to her supervisor and she didn't turn it into a drama. Instead she fought the problem in its own arena by making a IRC-bot to combat the problem, and not only that: the IRC-bot is only selectively used in the exact situation that is seen as problematic and it does so by writing e…

Yeah, unfortunately, if there is a gender stereotype to these kinds of conversations, it's that invariably there will be a response from a man saying "you did it wrong", regardless of the particular action the woman took. c.f. "She should have talked to her supervisor" here to "she should have made a witty come-back to the guy directly" to the guy with a low-cut sense of appropriateness.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#28

Post by unalone »

oskarth wrote: post #22
hythloday wrote: post #16

"It has been fascinating to watch the ongoing reactions. There have been complaints that we have too many bots in the channel now. There have been complaints about it spamming the channel. There were several “Make them shut up!” responses. These are not reactions I have seen the other bots elicit, certainly not with such intensity. One person even complained about the name being too long, though to his credit he real…

What I find the most fascinating is that she did everything exactly right and people still feel like she did something wrong. She didn't go to her supervisor and she didn't turn it into a drama. Instead she fought the problem in its own arena by making a IRC-bot to combat the problem, and not only that: the IRC-bot is only selectively used in the exact situation that is seen as problematic and it does so by writing e…

Really? What do you want?

We want women to shut up and stop telling us that there's a problem with how we behave, because it's rude to tell people there's something innately wrong with their behavior. Also it takes so much time and effort on our parts to try and behave like better people that it hardly seems like we should bother.

The problem, for many people, is not that the issue is being handled indelicately. It's that the issue is being brought up at all. Aren't there already systems that are supposed to handle discrimination, in private, so that we don't have to witness it being discussed firsthand? Why are people so self-centered that they have to make every innocent joke about politics or gender or society? I just thought it was funny that Dave said something that sounds like sex talk, and wanted all of you to know! And don't you know that men are discriminated against just as much as women?

As you can see I've got perfectly rational explanations for why I'm so irritated by women calling out sexist behaviors. I want them to stop calling things sexist so that I can stop worrying about their feelings.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#29

Post by wisty »

coob wrote: post #4

I'm struggling to come up with an answer to this question: Has technology ever solved issues with social etiquette?

Halfway through the article, I couldn't help thinking - "If she can't convince her co-workers to turn off a bot she finds offensive, the place is caustic".

This isn't really solving anything. The only difference between this and a well-deserved "fuck you" to the co-workers is it's done in a polite and clever way. It's a smart move, because it makes her look good and anyone who complains look like a sore loser (reversing the situation).

It's annoying that the situation exists, but at least she's handling it well.

Re: Jessamyn Smith: Fighting sexist jokes with a Python bot

#30

Post by rmc »

vasco wrote: post #5

I think this would never happen where I live. Honestly this seems like its the same thing as you guys in the US not being able to say merry christmas because it might offend someone. What's so wrong with being offended anyway? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHMoDt3nSHs&t=3m30s I think people over there just take everything to seriously.

Basically you're saying "Lighten up".

There is a problem of gender representation in tech. We need to do something about it.

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