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FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

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Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#11

Post by lr4444lr »

cddotdotslash wrote: post #4

One of the biggest arguments I remember being made back when net neutrality was a hot topic was that ISPs would bundle and sell specific websites as tiered plans. Infographics like this one [1] were shared widely. Has this happened in the US? I’ve definitely seen ISPs start to apply data caps and throttling, but haven’t seen the aforementioned packaging (at least with the major ISPs). I ask because this is one of the…

The sky was supposed to fall if net neutrality were abrogated, and IME, that hasn't happened. The only change I (and people I know) witnessed was throttling once broad data limits were exceeded, which IIRC wasn't what was at stake, and which I for one didn't object to, i.e., that people would have to pay for what they use. In short, I have not seen bandwidth or pricing weaponized at all to target specific businesses other than for morally objectionable content. Maybe my awareness is limited - I can't confirm that!

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#12

Post by thfuran »

0xy wrote: post #9
JohnTHaller wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have gotten it, but with services not websites. Mobile providers will sell you an "Unlimited" data plan that throttles everything after 25GB a month. Streaming Spotify and Apple Music won't count against that soft data cap. Streaming other music services will count against it. Video streaming over YouTube, Netflix, etc is capped at 480p levels. If you pay an additional monthly fee, you get upgraded to "Unlimited P…

How is that remotely the same thing? The infographic above and others clearly claim that ISPs will be blocking services then requiring you to pay for them separately. Exempting services from data caps is not against net neutrality, and for example has been regular practice all across Europe (which has "net neutrality"). Isn't it just shifting the goal posts after the original claims of NN campaigners were discredited…

>Exempting services from data caps is not against net neutrality,

Excluding some services from bandwidth cap is perhaps slightly less extreme than throttling specific services, which is itself less extreme than blocking those services outright. All are violations of net neutrality. The job of the ISP is to provide network connectivity, not decide how I use it.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#13

Post by falcojr »

ejstronge wrote: post #5
cddotdotslash wrote: post #4

One of the biggest arguments I remember being made back when net neutrality was a hot topic was that ISPs would bundle and sell specific websites as tiered plans. Infographics like this one [1] were shared widely. Has this happened in the US? I’ve definitely seen ISPs start to apply data caps and throttling, but haven’t seen the aforementioned packaging (at least with the major ISPs). I ask because this is one of the…

ISPs are offering 'Netflix-included' or discounted Disney+ plans. I don't know how they account for downloads from these services but the bundling is definitely happening.

Data caps (and services being excluded from them) are different though, aren't they? IIRC these were already happening before net neutrality rules were removed.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#15

Post by 15457345234 »

0xy wrote: post #9
JohnTHaller wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have gotten it, but with services not websites. Mobile providers will sell you an "Unlimited" data plan that throttles everything after 25GB a month. Streaming Spotify and Apple Music won't count against that soft data cap. Streaming other music services will count against it. Video streaming over YouTube, Netflix, etc is capped at 480p levels. If you pay an additional monthly fee, you get upgraded to "Unlimited P…

How is that remotely the same thing? The infographic above and others clearly claim that ISPs will be blocking services then requiring you to pay for them separately. Exempting services from data caps is not against net neutrality, and for example has been regular practice all across Europe (which has "net neutrality"). Isn't it just shifting the goal posts after the original claims of NN campaigners were discredited…

> Exempting services from data caps is not against net neutrality

Erm... Exempting a service's traffic from a restriction is the literal textbook definition of 'against net neutrality'

Weird misinformation here.

Just to clarify for the benefit of the audience:

Net Neutrality is when a carrier treats all data packets as equal, without regard to origin, destination, or provider.

I believe 'fair' QoS is exempted (you're allowed to prioritise low-latency traffic such as VOIP) but only if you throw all VOIP packets into the same 'high priority' queue regardless of software, provider, destination, etc.

If you charge on a per-byte basis but exempt some traffic from those charges, you're absolutely violating net neutrality.

If you have a data cap but exempt some traffic from that cap, you're absolutely violating net neutrality.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#17

Post by jasonjayr »

0xy wrote: post #9
JohnTHaller wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We have gotten it, but with services not websites. Mobile providers will sell you an "Unlimited" data plan that throttles everything after 25GB a month. Streaming Spotify and Apple Music won't count against that soft data cap. Streaming other music services will count against it. Video streaming over YouTube, Netflix, etc is capped at 480p levels. If you pay an additional monthly fee, you get upgraded to "Unlimited P…

How is that remotely the same thing? The infographic above and others clearly claim that ISPs will be blocking services then requiring you to pay for them separately. Exempting services from data caps is not against net neutrality, and for example has been regular practice all across Europe (which has "net neutrality"). Isn't it just shifting the goal posts after the original claims of NN campaigners were discredited…

Netflix pays their upstream ISP to saturate the link they pay for.

Why should Verizon, Comcast and others demand payment from Netflix?

They are connecting customers to the internet, and should be peered to IXs that can feed what their customers need. Netflix even offers to put caches on the ISPs network to lighten the burden on their IX uplink.

It will get untenable if every random ISP charges each content provider.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#18

Post by aqme28 »

cddotdotslash wrote: post #4

One of the biggest arguments I remember being made back when net neutrality was a hot topic was that ISPs would bundle and sell specific websites as tiered plans. Infographics like this one [1] were shared widely. Has this happened in the US? I’ve definitely seen ISPs start to apply data caps and throttling, but haven’t seen the aforementioned packaging (at least with the major ISPs). I ask because this is one of the…

That didn't happen here, but that is an actual advertisement from a Portuguese ISP, not just some sensationalized propaganda.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#19

Post by woeirua »

It really seems unnecessary at this point. Now that we have satellite based internet and 4G/5G are legit competitors to regular wire based ISPs it just seems that the market has solved this by itself. Sure, Comcast _could_ still start doing prioritization. But honestly I’d be a lot more worried about how Google/Meta/Microsoft are using your data for GenAI.

Re: FCC aims to reinstate net neutrality after us Democrats gain control of panel

#20

Post by Goronmon »

falcojr wrote: post #13
ejstronge wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ISPs are offering 'Netflix-included' or discounted Disney+ plans. I don't know how they account for downloads from these services but the bundling is definitely happening.

Data caps (and services being excluded from them) are different though, aren't they? IIRC these were already happening before net neutrality rules were removed.

Data caps existed, but exempting services from specific ones it the problem. Especially when it becomes "pay us to get your service excluded from the caps".
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