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Please do not take down the Sality botnet

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Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet

#71

The guy takes all the time to put this together, write this up, and is perfectly ok with the outcome, but instead of going to a coffee shop and doing this himself, he spends a lengthy amount of time writing up instructions and giving the criminals a chance to fix their injection problems before someone can take down the botnet. Baffling. Not only that, but this guy seems to know what he's doing and instead of someone…

What makes you think that he didn't post this and then immediately do it himself? It's called plausible deniability.

Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize in advance for the tone, but as a Russian I have a question - are you racist? Since Sergey Brin and Mila Yovovich are "russians", do you imply that Google and Hollywood are part of this botnet? The most famous hacker is Kevin Mitnick [american] and most recent hackers charged/arrested by FBI are also american citizens. Why don't you change "russians" to "americans"? Or may be "new_zealanders" [Kim dot com…

I agree that it is a prejudice and should be avoided, but it's not completely groundless: According to industry analyses, Russia accounts for about 35 percent of global cybercrime revenue, or between $2.5 and $3.7 billion. That’s wildly out of proportion with the country’s share of the global information technology market (which is around 1 percent). http://themoscownews.com/siloviks_scoundrels/20111121/189221... It'…

thank you :-)

Just to point to a couple of facts:-

1. From the same article:

"Why does every hacking and cyberscam story – real or fictional – seem to have a Russia connection?

In part, it is prejudice and laziness. The stereotype of the Russian hacker has become such a common media trope that it gets recycled again and again. It also offers a handy update for those looking for new ways to perpetuate the ‘Russian threat.’"

2. Following article line on FSB - anyone knows who hacked PCs of Iran nuke facility? If we judge on who had a reason - US - we shall assume that US have the same or even better hacker team than Russia [very clever OS hack that resulted in hardware malfunction at the nuke plant, thus significantly reducing its output - was covered in 2011].

3. I suspect that most of 'industry analysis' is funded by government agencies, directly or indirectly. So if the conclusion of 'industry analysis' would be that US accounts for 35 or 65 percent of global cybercrime revenue, then the next question would be - what the hell are the various government agencies doing and how effective do they spend government/taxpayers' money?

4. From the same article:

"However, a more basic answer is that a disproportionate number of Russians have worldclass math and computers skills, yet not the kind of jobs to use them legitimately. Although many firms in the industry are based in Russia, or else hire Russians, there is a pool of skilled but under-employed programmers who embrace the hacker world for fun, out of disillusion, or for profit."

Anyone can show me a skilled but under-employed programmer in Russia?

"Skilled but under-emplored programmer in Russia" is like Bigfoot [also known as sasquatch] - everyone heard about him/her, but noone saw. It is a legend...

But of course there are russians, americans, germans, brits, and other nations, which do quite some harm. I just do not think there is a legitimate way to define the winner.

Sorry for off-topic rambling, probably due to habit of enjoying fact-based debate, which resulted from my days in finance ;-))

Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet

#73
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious now. What if my neighbours house was on fire? That fire threatens the whole neighbourhood. Surely I can protect my property by attempting to put out the fire. Do firefighters have indeminty for attempting to put out fires? What about volunteer firefighters? Obviously I consider a house on fire to be analagous to an infected computer, but I do have some protection putting out a fire right? Nobody would sue…

With a house on fire you're taking reasonable action to protect life. In general, when you do something you then take responsibility for the consequences of that action. Thus, if there was a tiny fire and you flooded the house with water and foam and caused considerable water damage you may find the home owner suing for damage caused. You could counter by saying you prevented much more damage, but they'd say that a c…

Pointing a water hose at someone else's is probably illegal too...unless the house is on fire. Then is ok....see?

Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize in advance for the tone, but as a Russian I have a question - are you racist? Since Sergey Brin and Mila Yovovich are "russians", do you imply that Google and Hollywood are part of this botnet? The most famous hacker is Kevin Mitnick [american] and most recent hackers charged/arrested by FBI are also american citizens. Why don't you change "russians" to "americans"? Or may be "new_zealanders" [Kim dot com…

Indeed. The word criminals would be more accurate and less pejorative.

"Russian" is pejorative?

Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet

#75
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. The word criminals would be more accurate and less pejorative.

"Russian" is pejorative?

Sorry, my intent was to suggest that the sentence was pejorative towards Russians.

I may have been unclear and reading up I may have misused the word - can pejorative apply to a sentence or just to a word or phrase?

Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet

#76

So why can't those nice guys from the FBI go and do it already? It's so easy to replace sites when piracy is involved...

They simply can't. This is very different from closing down some "piracy" sites. In this case they need to mess with data on your computer. Do you want FBI to have a legal way to read, modify or destroy data on your computer? Even if you want (which I don't believe), there is no way that would work on international scale.

I remember a case from some years back when some group (some AV group or something like that) took control over a major botnet by taking control over domains botnet would use in future for receiving updates/commands. The algorithm was pretty sophisticated as it generated dozens of new domains each day and was trying to contact them on random. E.g. generate 100 domains, try to contact 15 of them, if none responds wait a day. Statistically the bot would get its commands in a 2-3 days (I don't really remember exact numbers so this example might not add up). Well, in order to stop the botnet you'd need to register all available domains out of those 100. So, they were doing just that for some time. They practically blocked the owners operating on the botnet. But they couldn't destroy it. Because that would require manipulating with data on random peoples' computers without their consent which you simply can't (legally). And I think it should stay that way. So anyway, they left it be and owners took control back.

But what can be done? You have to run your operating system updated. Having AV software (which is quicker in updates and act as a prevention) doesn't hurt either. And as this is not a real option for a some time, this is a good way. You destroy it in illegal fashion. But no official organization can do that.

Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I apologize in advance for the tone, but as a Russian I have a question - are you racist? Since Sergey Brin and Mila Yovovich are "russians", do you imply that Google and Hollywood are part of this botnet? The most famous hacker is Kevin Mitnick [american] and most recent hackers charged/arrested by FBI are also american citizens. Why don't you change "russians" to "americans"? Or may be "new_zealanders" [Kim dot com…

I agree that it is a prejudice and should be avoided, but it's not completely groundless: According to industry analyses, Russia accounts for about 35 percent of global cybercrime revenue, or between $2.5 and $3.7 billion. That’s wildly out of proportion with the country’s share of the global information technology market (which is around 1 percent). http://themoscownews.com/siloviks_scoundrels/20111121/189221... It'…

Based on that statistic it is significantly more likely that any particular cyber crime (or accurately dollar raised by cyber crime) is nothing to do with Russia than is and yet still this is a justification?

That article doesn't even provide enough information to say that if you had to pick a single country of origin then it's more likely to be Russia than anywhere else.

In terms of generalising based on that sort of thing though, would you similarly justify a suggestion that a drug deal was down to a young black male on the grounds that proportionately young black males in the USA are more likely to be convicted of such offences than young white males? Or would you see that as a sweeping and unhelpful generalisation that tars a whole group based on the activities of a minority?

Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet

#78

Is it just me or did the OP just blow a rare opportunity to be a hero? The power of a zero-day exploit is that you don't announce it and give the target a chance to make a patch.

So he should've contacted the botnet owner and tell him to patch sites he use for controlling the botnet?

Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet

#79
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Russian" is pejorative?

Sorry, my intent was to suggest that the sentence was pejorative towards Russians. I may have been unclear and reading up I may have misused the word - can pejorative apply to a sentence or just to a word or phrase?

Yeah, I was just not sure if you were using it on the whole comment or making a silly joke. And I think it's a word only, at least in a language I speak naturally. That is not English however.

Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet

#80
post #76

So why can't those nice guys from the FBI go and do it already? It's so easy to replace sites when piracy is involved...

They simply can't. This is very different from closing down some "piracy" sites. In this case they need to mess with data on your computer. Do you want FBI to have a legal way to read, modify or destroy data on your computer? Even if you want (which I don't believe), there is no way that would work on international scale. I remember a case from some years back when some group (some AV group or something like that) to…

They simply can't. This is very different from closing down some "piracy" sites

Yes, they're called lobbyists. And no large brown bags stuffed with $100 bills has been passed under the table. There is also no oil there.

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