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How (not) to apply for a software job

benhoyt.com

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Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#131

Post by fmajid »

r4indeer wrote: post #74
tsak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once applied for a job at Canonical. This was their process (roughly two years ago)... Thank you for applying for Software Engineer. The application process has several stages: - Initial screening (done) - Personal essay (this stage) - Culture interview - Standardised aptitude and personality tests - General interviews - Recruitment screen - Technical assessment - Role-specific interviews - Hiring manager interview…

I'm sorry, a 10-stage application with at least 5 different interviews? How many weeks is this going to take? This feels like FAANG-level recruitment. Am I so out of touch to expect an application, one interview and maybe a technical assessment for most IT/CompSci jobs? Wouldn't the probationary period be way more effective to see if you fit into the team/company/culture/etc.?

I interviewed with both Canonical and Meta 6 months ago. The Canonical process is far more intense, and yes, it's a big time investment "on spec" for a candidate (I'd estimate it at 7 man-days, 4 for the written essay alone), along with 10 interviews.

They do read the essay carefully, which is what the OP's article is all about.

I'd rather a company take time to do a thorough assessment of a candidate rather than cavalierly hire one with a high likelihood of dismissal during the trial period, as they may have left an existing job to join.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#132

Post by siva7 »

fmajid wrote: post #130
siva7 wrote: post #117

I applied twice at Canonical. Got both times an automated mail where they proudly pronounced how superior and more human their interview process is and that i will definitely receive a follow-up. Both times i've been ghosted. So therefore let me give some advice to the blog author: Before (or instead of) giving out generic advice to job candidates, try to be a bit more humble about the (broken) reality at Canonical.

I've been through the hiring process at Canonical 6 months ago (wringer would be a more accurate term), all the way to 4 interviews with Mark Shuttleworth and an offer for a Director level position. I ended up passing because I didn't want to manage in a 100% remote distributed culture, and to be perfectly honest with myself a senior IC position was more suited to my personality than a managerial one. I think their p…

My criticisms is directed at ghosting candidates for a company claiming they will do otherwise. That shouldn't depend on "quite possible small errors in the resume or application". Both were senior roles. They were also the only company doing this from all those i applied for.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#133

Post by fmajid »

emerongi wrote: post #66
rawbert wrote: post #42

Am I the only one who is not maintaining some kind of private Github repo? I am doing this job for the money and not the "coding fun". If I had the urge to code more, I would just do more hours in my regular job and get paid for that.

I think none of my coworkers in different jobs have had Github profiles with public code. I have a Github profile with multiple public repos, but I don't think it helps with anything. I once had an interviewer say "it seems like you don't have much on your Github profile".

Many developers have taken to making junk pull requests with things like typo changes to make their GitHub contribution graph look more green, as that's all the HR drones doing screening will look at.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#134

Post by michaelt »

r4indeer wrote: post #74
tsak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once applied for a job at Canonical. This was their process (roughly two years ago)... Thank you for applying for Software Engineer. The application process has several stages: - Initial screening (done) - Personal essay (this stage) - Culture interview - Standardised aptitude and personality tests - General interviews - Recruitment screen - Technical assessment - Role-specific interviews - Hiring manager interview…

I'm sorry, a 10-stage application with at least 5 different interviews? How many weeks is this going to take? This feels like FAANG-level recruitment. Am I so out of touch to expect an application, one interview and maybe a technical assessment for most IT/CompSci jobs? Wouldn't the probationary period be way more effective to see if you fit into the team/company/culture/etc.?

> Am I so out of touch to expect an application, one interview and maybe a technical assessment for most IT/CompSci jobs?

My information is a decade+ out of date, but Google would perform a recruiter/CV screen, then a technical phone screen, then five technical interviews on one day. And this was all before your CV got in front of the person you'd be reporting to, and before they could say whether they were offering interesting work.

Many other tech companies, having seen Google's success, have decided to ape their interview process.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#135

Post by john-radio »

sjducb wrote: post #118
pacMakaveli wrote: post #82

This article is so frustrating. Get yourself on the market before spewing this shit. I recently been on the lookout for a new job and my first CV was personal. Full of my own words and description of what I did in the last 10+ years as a software engineer. I'm a bit biased but it was a really good CV. That got me 0 fucking offers. ZERO I rewrote my CV based on some google suggestions and with ChatGPT. I got through n…

Yea you 100% need a skills section that lists every technology you’ve ever worked with. I tried taking it off and got no interviews with that CV version. Someone in HR or a recruiter will match up the technologies on the job post with your CV and only put you through if you list most of the ones they need.

I never know how granular to go with those.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#136

Post by fmajid »

voidnap wrote: post #37
yakshaving_jgt wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If an applicant can’t take the time to write a cover letter — and by “cover letter” I just mean an email that’s says here’s who I am and here’s what I like/do — why should the person hiring take the time to read what the applicant has copied and pasted to countless other employers?

> and by “cover letter” I just mean an email that’s says here’s who I am and here’s what I like/do This makes it sound like it would be something that would be "copied and pasted to countless other employers", just like a resume often is. But your last point made it sound like the applicant should invest more of their time than that. Conventionally, a good cover letter will be, at least to a degree, bespoke for that…

There's a half-way between full-bespoke and ready-to-wear ChatGPT boilerplate, you can assemble a cover letter to order from reusable snippets, then add something specific to the company and job opportunity, assuming it's one worth the extra effort.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#137

Post by michaelt »

moron4hire wrote: post #99
tsak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once applied for a job at Canonical. This was their process (roughly two years ago)... Thank you for applying for Software Engineer. The application process has several stages: - Initial screening (done) - Personal essay (this stage) - Culture interview - Standardised aptitude and personality tests - General interviews - Recruitment screen - Technical assessment - Role-specific interviews - Hiring manager interview…

> Standardised aptitude and personality tests Really?! I'm pretty sure that's illegal.

You're probably thinking of "Griggs v. Duke Power Co." which was about IQ testing.

The restriction only applies to tests which are not a reasonable measure of job performance.

So for example, a test of strength might be allowed for delivery drivers who have to safely handle heavy items, when it wouldn't be allowed for software developers.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#138

Post by rewmie »

r4indeer wrote: post #74
tsak wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I once applied for a job at Canonical. This was their process (roughly two years ago)... Thank you for applying for Software Engineer. The application process has several stages: - Initial screening (done) - Personal essay (this stage) - Culture interview - Standardised aptitude and personality tests - General interviews - Recruitment screen - Technical assessment - Role-specific interviews - Hiring manager interview…

I'm sorry, a 10-stage application with at least 5 different interviews? How many weeks is this going to take? This feels like FAANG-level recruitment. Am I so out of touch to expect an application, one interview and maybe a technical assessment for most IT/CompSci jobs? Wouldn't the probationary period be way more effective to see if you fit into the team/company/culture/etc.?

> I'm sorry, a 10-stage application with at least 5 different interviews? How many weeks is this going to take? This feels like FAANG-level recruitment.

At least one of the FANGs only has 3 or 4 steps, one being a HR contact and another a phone screening.

A 10-step process goes way beyond that.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#140

Post by xyzzy3000 »

michaelt wrote: post #134
r4indeer wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry, a 10-stage application with at least 5 different interviews? How many weeks is this going to take? This feels like FAANG-level recruitment. Am I so out of touch to expect an application, one interview and maybe a technical assessment for most IT/CompSci jobs? Wouldn't the probationary period be way more effective to see if you fit into the team/company/culture/etc.?

> Am I so out of touch to expect an application, one interview and maybe a technical assessment for most IT/CompSci jobs? My information is a decade+ out of date, but Google would perform a recruiter/CV screen, then a technical phone screen, then five technical interviews on one day. And this was all before your CV got in front of the person you'd be reporting to, and before they could say whether they were offering…

Bet they don't offer Google levels of prestige or salary though.

It comes across like a sort of cargo cult recruitment.

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