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AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

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Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#61

Post by krapp »

nathias wrote: post #55
krapp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitions don't matter. The device I carry in my pocket is "defined" as a "smartphone" despite being a computer that just happens to have an app that simulates an archaic device called a "telephone" installed on it. It also provides convenient access for law enforcement to monitor all of my social media accounts and communications and metadata and scan my storage for contraband. Preferably with a warrant but of cou…

Your computer can spy on you. The web can spy on you. Your appliances can spy on you. Your car can spy on you. Your lightbulbs can spy on you. but you don't need tech for that, a spy can spy on you

I don't need a gun to kill people, I can use a knife, but the existence of knives doesn't negate the lethality of guns.

Technology may not be necessary for surveillance but it is nonetheless used for surveillance. That other means besides technology can also be used for surveillance is irrelevant to the utility of technology for surveillance.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#62

Post by orwin »

anonylizard wrote: post #39
nuc1e0n wrote: post #28

The current wave of AI seems more like an investment scam to me. Like crypto currencies and NFTs were.

You have companies like Midjourney, making hundreds of millions per month, off a staff of 50. The users of Midjourney aren't there for future riches, they use it either for daily entertainment or for work.

I would never use midjourney for work related projects, or stuff I want to sell/publish. For my rpg campaign though :)

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#63

Post by krapp »

nathias wrote: post #52
krapp wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It does. All communication technology is surveillance technology.

I can use communication tech to avoid surveillance, so no.

And in doing so you've created a data fingerprint that can be surveilled, and then the NSA just roots your phone or data provider or Google or whatever they want, so no, you really can't.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#64

Post by throwaway914 »

londondev45 wrote: post #59

[flagged]

"Brian Heater is the Hardware Editor at TechCrunch. He worked for a number of leading tech publications, including Engadget, PCMag, Laptop, and Tech Times, where he served as the Managing Editor. His writing has appeared in Spin, Wired, Playboy, Entertainment Weekly, The Onion, Boing Boing, Publishers Weekly, The Daily Beast and various other publications. He hosts the weekly Boing Boing interview podcast RiYL, has appeared as a regular NPR contributor and shares his Queens apartment with a rabbit named Lucy."

?

This site isn't my first choice for news, but I'm not sure how any of that dismisses from the points made in the article. Maybe someday we'll care about consumer protection laws and starve the growing industry around AI for training data.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#65

Post by mavhc »

johnnyworker wrote: post #54
jdthedisciple wrote: post #5

Does anybody know of a facial recognition AI that actually classifies faces as (non)-liars as she claims? Not sure about this take. You need data at the end of the day, to build good AI models. These days it feels like anyone's public takes are more or less just a means to promote their own cause. And I say this as a happy and long-time Signal user.

The point isn't whether those things are correct. They are used as tools of surveillance and oppression. > These are ultimately surveillance systems that are being marketed to those who have power over us generally: our employers, governments, border control, etc., to make determinations and predictions that will shape our access to resources and opportunities. And hey, the more arbitrary or even false something is,…

"Authorities penalized families over a mere suspicion of fraud based on the system’s risk indicators"

Don't do that part, nothing to do with AI, it's about humans being lazy

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#66

Post by robertlagrant »

ethanbond wrote: post #47
robertlagrant wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> While I'm not aware of any technology that claims to classify faces as liars the rest of the statement is broadly true. And if you wanted to cross-check a face against a database of known liars, the entire statement is true. Well, I don't think the "bad character" thing is there either. The problem is with these statements is they are lies that contain some truth. Cameras exist. AI to try and detect basic facial ex…

I see the reverse “lie that contains some truth” in your argument. Obviously this stuff will be used for all of these purposes as soon as it’s able, and probably a little bit before then.

As soon as AI is able to tell a liar from a video of them? What does that mean?

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#67

Post by rvz »

No shit. As already said years ago. [0]

Closed source software is surveillance technology.

Internet of Things is surveillance technology.

Blockchain / crypto is surveillance technology.

Virtual Reality is surveillance technology.

AI is surveillance technology.

Very disappointed that it took you guys this long to realize that, but it is too late to stop all of it entirely.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31617042

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#68

Post by janAkali »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #15
jdthedisciple wrote: post #5

Does anybody know of a facial recognition AI that actually classifies faces as (non)-liars as she claims? Not sure about this take. You need data at the end of the day, to build good AI models. These days it feels like anyone's public takes are more or less just a means to promote their own cause. And I say this as a happy and long-time Signal user.

> Not sure about this take. You need data at the end of the day, to build good AI models. I don't think she is saying that AI is predicated on surveillance as a source of training data (although that does happen in a few cases). She seems to be saying that surveillance is the primary use case for AI. Actually I don't think that's true, consider manufacturing robots. However, mass surveillance, a societal scourge and…

> Actually I don't think that's true, consider manufacturing robots.

We're long way from making fully AI-driven robots. But much closer to other uses.

Our current world is very data-centric: companies have been collecting, selling, sharing and stashing metadata with websites, social media and smartphones for the last decade. Now, language models will help them process it. I have one question: for what cause? Surely, for the good of humanity. That's what the companies exist for, right?

It's not like we need laws to force companies to not screw us over, or in America they need lobbyists to force politicians to force companies to not screw them over. Currently, AI is absolutely unregulated wild lawless west, and it's frightening. And not because of bad actors, but because of the 'pretending to be good' ones.

> Wasn't it always true? Trivially all people advocate their beliefs..

You would be surprised, but people need constant reminders of that. Or they will start treating mega-corporations as privacy-respecting, consumer-oriented, eco-friendly or any other bullshit their PR-team trying to push today or will try tomorrow.

Re: AI is fundamentally ‘a surveillance technology’

#70

Post by notRobot »

mavhc wrote: post #65
johnnyworker wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The point isn't whether those things are correct. They are used as tools of surveillance and oppression. > These are ultimately surveillance systems that are being marketed to those who have power over us generally: our employers, governments, border control, etc., to make determinations and predictions that will shape our access to resources and opportunities. And hey, the more arbitrary or even false something is,…

"Authorities penalized families over a mere suspicion of fraud based on the system’s risk indicators" Don't do that part, nothing to do with AI, it's about humans being lazy

And AI enables it to greater ex extents then ever before.
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