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How (not) to apply for a software job

benhoyt.com

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Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#41

Post by friendlyHornet »

Darkstryder wrote: post #15
notgoliath wrote: post #7

Software engineers using tools like ChatGPT isn't really about trying to game the system. It's more about how out-of-touch the old-school job application process feels. We really just want to make things easier on ourselves. We're in a time where we're all about automating the boring stuff. Why? Because we can. The whole idea of writing a cover letter feels ancient. Honestly, when I'm shooting out a ton of job applic…

To me, a good cover letter is about being actually motivated to apply to a specific job and then simply explaining why. AI doesn’t help because if you can articulate your genuine motivation as a prompt for an AI, you should just use the prompt as the cover letter which will be a lot more effective than using the AI-generated letter, as the AI will muddy your authentic motivation and diminish its impact.

> To me, a good cover letter is about being actually motivated to apply to a specific job and then simply explaining why.

Money. I want money. That's the reason I am applying to your job offer. I found a job offer that meets my skillset and I applied to it because I want an income.

But this isn't what you expect me to write, is it? You want something more, so I'm going to bullshit you so I can get the job that will allow me to get money

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#42

Post by rawbert »

Am I the only one who is not maintaining some kind of private Github repo? I am doing this job for the money and not the "coding fun". If I had the urge to code more, I would just do more hours in my regular job and get paid for that.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#44

Post by morelisp »

rawbert wrote: post #42

Am I the only one who is not maintaining some kind of private Github repo? I am doing this job for the money and not the "coding fun". If I had the urge to code more, I would just do more hours in my regular job and get paid for that.

Most people will not get paid more for working more hours.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#45

Post by benhoyt »

silvestrov wrote: post #33

When do employers get to "how to properly write a job advertisement"? All these articles are only about what workers should do, not how companies fail again and again at writing a good description of the job. E.g. "Describe your experience with software operations and running services in production" is a really bad question as it is too open ended and leads to name dropping. Asking for "engaging answers" judges the p…

> When benhoyt says "In short, don’t be generic" then at least he could take his own advice into account when writing questions.

I actually agree with this: I think several of our questions could be improved and made more specific. On the other hand, we do want them to be somewhat open-ended so the writer has to think and can put their best foot forward (or not). I don't write these questions, but I'll try to provide some feedback to those who do.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#46

Post by Narciss »

pell wrote: post #9
landgenoot wrote: post #2

Interesting to see that perfect grammar gives you penalties nowadays.

At my job I have to write a lot of internal documentation and teaching material for teams to learn from. Since ChatGPT I've changed my writing style slightly because it often could be perceived as written by AI. It is comical that I'm now thinking twice about using certain phrases because they might mirror ChatGPT's writing characteristics. I am now even including different paragraph lengths because everyone is famil…

That is fascinating, isn't it? That we're tailoring our writing as a response to how an AI writes things.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#47

Post by vineyardmike »

emerongi wrote: post #38
tsak wrote: post #16

I had this happen with an applicant recently, where they fed our job description into ChatGPT to generate a cover letter which was very non-descript and flowery, quoting phrases from the job spec verbatim which made it sound rather insane. Trying to give the candidate a chance, I asked them why they had a applied to the position in the hopes that they would write me a short answer about what piqued their interest. Al…

> that they would write me a short answer about what piqued their interest Honest question: do people actually apply to jobs because it piques their interest? I pretty much just... need a job. I'll assess whether I want to join based almost purely on the team - if the team doesn't feel right, I'll skip. I don't apply for any jobs that require a cover letter. There's already enough information asymmetry and the effort…

I also don’t apply for jobs where I have to write a cover-letter. Last time I was laid off (when I was forced to find a new job), I applied in 2 pools - jobs that piqued my interests and jobs that paid me money so I can live. In the first group, when asked I could easily drone on about the interesting work they publish or whatever. The second group… I could scrap together a smile and a thin lie about how they’re a really impactful place based on what I learned from their homepage.

When applying for jobs because I want a change, not because I need a salary, then yea it’s exclusively applications to interesting companies and teams.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#48

Post by sdflhasjd »

emerongi wrote: post #38
tsak wrote: post #16

I had this happen with an applicant recently, where they fed our job description into ChatGPT to generate a cover letter which was very non-descript and flowery, quoting phrases from the job spec verbatim which made it sound rather insane. Trying to give the candidate a chance, I asked them why they had a applied to the position in the hopes that they would write me a short answer about what piqued their interest. Al…

> that they would write me a short answer about what piqued their interest Honest question: do people actually apply to jobs because it piques their interest? I pretty much just... need a job. I'll assess whether I want to join based almost purely on the team - if the team doesn't feel right, I'll skip. I don't apply for any jobs that require a cover letter. There's already enough information asymmetry and the effort…

People who already have a job and are wanting to move will have reasons for wanting a shift (frequently besides just salary).

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#49

Post by krisoft »

silvestrov wrote: post #33

When do employers get to "how to properly write a job advertisement"? All these articles are only about what workers should do, not how companies fail again and again at writing a good description of the job. E.g. "Describe your experience with software operations and running services in production" is a really bad question as it is too open ended and leads to name dropping. Asking for "engaging answers" judges the p…

> When do employers get to "how to properly write a job advertisement"?

It is a very common topic. At work we get special training on it and tools to write better job advertisements.

> a really bad question as it is too open ended and leads to name dropping

It is definietly not a "job advertisement" or a description of a job. It is an interview question.

It is open ended, what is wrong with that? They are looking for someone who has experience in the domain, so they ask potential candidates what their experience is.

And how does it lead to "name dropping"? If all a candidate says is that they have worked at FamousPlace the right next question should be what specifically they have done there regarding running services in production. Same as if they say they have worked at NonamePlace.

Re: How (not) to apply for a software job

#50

Post by zeroCalories »

notgoliath wrote: post #14
sheepshear wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We toss out anything that looks written by AI.

That's so dumb. Dismissing applications based on the tools used rather than the content and qualifications is a missed opportunity. The goal should be to evaluate the substance and authenticity of an application, not to play "guess if it's AI-assisted or not." There's real talent out there looking for opportunities, and they might just be using AI to help navigate a convoluted application process.

You know job applications aren't checkboxes that need to be filled, but an opportunity to promote yourself? Sending in a cover letter that's obviously AI generated gives an employer so many negative signals about you. A good cover letter could be a single sentence, yet you choose to spam us with crap that says nothing about you? Are you struggling to say why we should hire you, or are you just stupid? Into the trash.
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