They did this in '60.
Me today, 70 years later: undefined is not a function.
We failed with computers...
The SR-71 Blackbird Astro-Nav System worked by tracking the stars
251–260 of 358 posts
Re: The SR-71 Blackbird Astro-Nav System worked by tracking the stars
#252Earlier quoted context omitted.
For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military purchased many copies, apparently so their tanks and troops could remain oriented after all other electronic systems failed. Possibly in case of EMP attack?
EMPs are a fantasy. Absolutely and unreservedly a complete fantasy. ZERO have ever been tested, and there’s literally a better use for a nuclear warhead. Not only is it a a completely hypothetical attack, it would look identical to a normal nuclear ICBM attack, and absolutely would result in a traditional retaliatory attack. Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities? Literally doesn’t make sense. No one in t…
> Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities?
ICMBs were a theoretical threat. Cold War doctrine had a more realistic (and less apocalyptic) WWIII that would be fought by tactical nukes and tanks through Europe.
Re: The SR-71 Blackbird Astro-Nav System worked by tracking the stars
#253Earlier quoted context omitted.
EMPs are a fantasy. Absolutely and unreservedly a complete fantasy. ZERO have ever been tested, and there’s literally a better use for a nuclear warhead. Not only is it a a completely hypothetical attack, it would look identical to a normal nuclear ICBM attack, and absolutely would result in a traditional retaliatory attack. Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities? Literally doesn’t make sense. No one in t…
> Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities? ICMBs were a theoretical threat. Cold War doctrine had a more realistic (and less apocalyptic) WWIII that would be fought by tactical nukes and tanks through Europe.
But a emp is a icbm in all but name.
Re: The SR-71 Blackbird Astro-Nav System worked by tracking the stars
#254Earlier quoted context omitted.
EMPs are a fantasy. Absolutely and unreservedly a complete fantasy. ZERO have ever been tested, and there’s literally a better use for a nuclear warhead. Not only is it a a completely hypothetical attack, it would look identical to a normal nuclear ICBM attack, and absolutely would result in a traditional retaliatory attack. Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities? Literally doesn’t make sense. No one in t…
> Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities? ICMBs were a theoretical threat. Cold War doctrine had a more realistic (and less apocalyptic) WWIII that would be fought by tactical nukes and tanks through Europe.
Bullshit. They’ve been demonstrated. Repeatedly, and publicly. That’s the whole point of having them.
Also, there is no difference between a tactical and strategic nuke from an escalatory perspective. Once the genie is out, it’s out.
Re: The SR-71 Blackbird Astro-Nav System worked by tracking the stars
#255Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ok so to clarify it’s not the international date line but the latitude? Which makes more sense to me because the international date line is not actually a straight line.
> to clarify it’s not the international date line but the latitude? Longitude. The vertical one that goes from negative to positive at 180 Longitude East or West. Maybe you should get a map out and have a look.
Right. I do know the difference between latitude and longitude; I just mistyped.
I was working in Samoa when they changed the date to align with NZ time, so am quite familiar with the region.
Re: The SR-71 Blackbird Astro-Nav System worked by tracking the stars
#256Earlier quoted context omitted.
For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military purchased many copies, apparently so their tanks and troops could remain oriented after all other electronic systems failed. Possibly in case of EMP attack?
EMPs are a fantasy. Absolutely and unreservedly a complete fantasy. ZERO have ever been tested, and there’s literally a better use for a nuclear warhead. Not only is it a a completely hypothetical attack, it would look identical to a normal nuclear ICBM attack, and absolutely would result in a traditional retaliatory attack. Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities? Literally doesn’t make sense. No one in t…
>EMPs are a fantasy.
The Defense Department doesn't agree with you one bit.
Russia is the worlds leader in Non-Nuclear EMP/RFW systems:
https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/trecms/pdf/AD1124730.pdf
Non-nuclear EMP weapons are a thing.
Re: The SR-71 Blackbird Astro-Nav System worked by tracking the stars
#257I'm going to replay this from memory without googling it, just to keep the late 20th century air of some people swapping unverifiable facts in a pub: There was an old friend of my mother's, now deceased, who was a retired engineer. He claimed to be the guy who invented the 2-part tuna can, and was known for handing out end chunks of titanium castings left over from some business he ran. At any rate, he had a couple o…
I interned at the Charles Stark Draper Laboratory 20+ years ago. One of the guys was telling me at lunch about his work that day. He had to run some simulations to tell the Navy if their Trident guidance system needed to be sent back for re-manufacturing after a forklift operator dropped it. My understanding is that the handling crate had some kind of integral rough handling detector. (I presume calibrated weights on…
Rough handling indicators are either glass vial based or contain a weight that slides into a window if sufficient force is exerted. There are plastic springs designed to break and other springs that force the weight to stay in the indication window.
Re: The SR-71 Blackbird Astro-Nav System worked by tracking the stars
#258Earlier quoted context omitted.
>ZERO have ever been tested Wait what? There were specific nuclear EMP tests. And sure, in any realistic nuclear war scenario EMP is just an unpredictable byproduct like your link says, but that doesn't make it fantasy I believe?
I wonder if the parent is talking about pure EMP without the nuke because those are pure fantasy. Kill all electronics w/o all the fallout.
No. That’s not what I mean. I’m talking about big boogeyman of an EMP attack that destroys the either the North American electrical grid and assorted electronics or merely all electronics in a city.
There is no nonnuclear EMP weapon. Every proposed EMP attack is literally a hydrogen bomb delivered via an ICBM and detonated at extremely high altitude. That is the only way to deliver one to the proper place and the only way to deliver the required energy. That’s just the physics. Even then, the actual effect at ground level, is unpredictable because of simple shielding and atmospheric turbulence. But the undetermined effects aren’t what makes an EMP fantastical. It’s fact that it’s delivered by an ICBM!
The premise of an EMP attack is that somehow the attacker could surprise their enemy and land a catastrophic knockout blow near instantaneously (where “instantaneous” is defined as “between 10 and 30 minutes” (i.e. the flight time of either an SLBM or ICBM)) with little to no retaliation. A Launch on Warning policy (i.e. launch a retaliatory strike when an incoming missile is detected in the air) along with ground and space based surveillance systems makes attempting to execute an EMP attack suicidal.
Missile launch detection systems have been operationally deployed and maintained since the 1960s. They work. Launch on Warning has been the policy of the United States since the 1960s. Implicit in a LOW policy is that the retaliatory strike order is given in minutes from a detected launch. This means the retaliatory nuclear weapons are already sent on their irreversible course before any incoming detonation occurs. This is the defense posture a hypothetical EMP attacker is lobbing an ICBM into. This isn't fantasy. This isn't just math. It’s the explicit nuclear posture of the United States for the past 60 years. It’s what makes Mutually Assured Destruction (MAD) work, and arguably has maintained peace between nuclear states for 70 years.
If an attacker has decided to launch a nuclear laden ICBM they just started a full on nuclear exchange, because that’s the response. No one is waiting to see where it goes. It’s “The missiles are flying. Hallelujah, Hallelujah.” Now. Given that you’re in an inevitable nuclear exchange, is it reasonable to waste a nuke on a roll of the dice on whether it actually do anything when you could actually blow something up? Nay! Knowing that you are being blown up?
On a related note, this is the exact situation why the proposed Prompt Global Strike weapon is suicidal. An ICBM armed with high explosives, looks exactly like an ICBM armed with nuke. Similarly, a kinetic energy hypersonic glide vehicle is not suicidal specifically because it doesn’t travel on a ballistic arc.
Re: The SR-71 Blackbird Astro-Nav System worked by tracking the stars
#259Earlier quoted context omitted.
EMPs are a fantasy. Absolutely and unreservedly a complete fantasy. ZERO have ever been tested, and there’s literally a better use for a nuclear warhead. Not only is it a a completely hypothetical attack, it would look identical to a normal nuclear ICBM attack, and absolutely would result in a traditional retaliatory attack. Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities? Literally doesn’t make sense. No one in t…
> Why would anyone trade an EMP for all their cities? ICMBs were a theoretical threat. Cold War doctrine had a more realistic (and less apocalyptic) WWIII that would be fought by tactical nukes and tanks through Europe.
"and less apocalyptic"
Not if you happened to be the relevant parts of Europe!
Re: The SR-71 Blackbird Astro-Nav System worked by tracking the stars
#260Semi-related tangent: During the early 1990's I developed a star chart and ephemeris for the (momentarily) fashionable Windows Mobile platform called "Pocket Stars" that calculated one's geographical position from three or more sextant observations, mainly as backup for offshore sailors should their GPS system fail. For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military purchased many copies, apparen…
For reasons I still can't fathom, a contractor for the Israeli military purchased many copies, apparently so their tanks and troops could remain oriented after all other electronic systems failed. Possibly in case of EMP attack?
Their threat model is more likely about GPS jamming or other more vanilla electronic warfare techniques.