25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving • Hacker News Board

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#71

Post by eesmith » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 3:54 AM UTC

thebruce87m wrote: post #70

eesmith wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... best public transport in the country. Nowhere else has an underground system with trains every 5 minutes. Glasgow? "There are trains every four minutes at peak times and every six-to-eight minutes during off-peak times." says https://www.spt.co.uk/subway/subway-timetables/ .

When English people talk about the “UK”, they really mean England. You’ll notice that even though they will talk about the UK throughout their post they will mention “the north”, by which they mean the north of England so they aren’t really talking about the UK.

Yes, I know about their "country of countries". Before commenting I did an HN search and double-checked that benj111 consistently uses "country" to mean "UK", such as using "in my country (UK)", at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=20995793 .

As for "the North", we have a similar historical construct in the US, where "the North" does not include Alaska or even North Dakota. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_United_States .

Similarly, while Miami, Florida is geographically in the southern US, it is not culturally part of "the South".

I think it's more likely that benj111 simply did not know that detail about the Glasgow, rather than knowing that detail and deliberately excluding it because it's in Scotland. It is, after all, a rather small system without the international fame of London's underground.

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#72

Post by benj111 » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 6:30 AM UTC

thebruce87m wrote: post #70

eesmith wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ... best public transport in the country. Nowhere else has an underground system with trains every 5 minutes. Glasgow? "There are trains every four minutes at peak times and every six-to-eight minutes during off-peak times." says https://www.spt.co.uk/subway/subway-timetables/ .

When English people talk about the “UK”, they really mean England. You’ll notice that even though they will talk about the UK throughout their post they will mention “the north”, by which they mean the north of England so they aren’t really talking about the UK.

Or maybe I just wasn't aware of the regularity of Glasgow tube trains?

When I talk about the UK, I really mean the UK. 'The north' is a name not necessarily reflective of geographic boundaries, if you want that, use 'the north of England'. 'Yorkshire' also necessarily excludes Scotland.

I'm also geographically closer, and emotionally closer to Scotland than London, so why would I exclude Scotland?

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#73

Post by thebruce87m » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:34 AM UTC

benj111 wrote: post #72

thebruce87m wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When English people talk about the “UK”, they really mean England. You’ll notice that even though they will talk about the UK throughout their post they will mention “the north”, by which they mean the north of England so they aren’t really talking about the UK.

Or maybe I just wasn't aware of the regularity of Glasgow tube trains? When I talk about the UK, I really mean the UK. 'The north' is a name not necessarily reflective of geographic boundaries, if you want that, use 'the north of England'. 'Yorkshire' also necessarily excludes Scotland. I'm also geographically closer, and emotionally closer to Scotland than London, so why would I exclude Scotland?

> if you want that, use 'the north of England'

The rest of us do, but it’s mostly English posting here so you’ll just see “the north” so it’s unclear if they are really talking about the UK or not. I came across some beer from “the north” in Stirling recently and it was from Leeds.

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#74

Post by kergonath » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 7:52 AM UTC

hkt wrote: post #43

kergonath wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No other part of the country has ever had so much spent on mass transit nor will it ever. This entirely true and very unfortunate. It is great to see Manchester making improvements on that front, for example, and I hope many cities will follow as the current model is absurd. Franchising like in London is not ideal but a marked improvement. That said, there aren’t many places in the UK where a single train line can…

> Up to a point, improving transport around London is the best bang for your quid. I'm trying to limit snark in my responses to this article, but wow. It turns out if you invest in something continually at the expense of everywhere else it becomes the lynchpin of the system. Good grief. The major reason people in the north hate hearing about investment in the south is because politically it is very clearly a zero sum…

> The major reason people in the north hate hearing about investment in the south is because politically it is very clearly a zero sum game. If the south gets investment, the north doesn't.

Indeed. But that’s politics, not a law of nature. The zero-sum game is completely artificial: the money tree does not exist until you need it and then it does. A sensible revitalisation policy for the North would pay for itself over the long term.

The incentives are really not great from a political point of view and that is very unfortunate. Still, hurting London economically won’t help the rest of the UK in any way.

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#75

Post by benj111 » Tue, Sep 26, 2023, 12:09 PM UTC

thebruce87m wrote: post #73

benj111 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe I just wasn't aware of the regularity of Glasgow tube trains? When I talk about the UK, I really mean the UK. 'The north' is a name not necessarily reflective of geographic boundaries, if you want that, use 'the north of England'. 'Yorkshire' also necessarily excludes Scotland. I'm also geographically closer, and emotionally closer to Scotland than London, so why would I exclude Scotland?

> if you want that, use 'the north of England' The rest of us do, but it’s mostly English posting here so you’ll just see “the north” so it’s unclear if they are really talking about the UK or not. I came across some beer from “the north” in Stirling recently and it was from Leeds.

By default I talk about the Britain (geography, UK the country). If I'm talking about England I'll mention it specifically.

It could be English bias but to me the North is a concept that can mean something between north of Watford gap, to specifically northern England.

As you say, most British people on here are English, and I'd guess most of those are from the south, so if I'm invoking some sort of concept of 'The North', it's probably in contrast to those southerners.

Personally I feel culturally closer to Scotland than London, so I'm not looking to exclude Scotland here.

The problem is the language. I've conflated the south and London, and I've described my self as British rather than UKish.