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Rich Sutton joins John Carmack's Keen Technologies

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Re: Rich Sutton joins John Carmack's Keen Technologies

#11

Post by throwaway-blaze »

version_five wrote: post #2

This is a link to a Twitter announcing a YouTube coming in 1/2 hour. Does / did the YouTube contain the announcement? Now that Twitter has gone subscriber only, we can't see any context around tweets. I think they should be DOA now when posted to HN as they do not allow for follow up or rtfaing.

I'm not sure what you mean by twitter going "subscriber only". I pay them nothing per month and I just opened this link in an incognito window with no trouble...

Re: Rich Sutton joins John Carmack's Keen Technologies

#12

Post by fzzzy »

throwaway-blaze wrote: post #11
version_five wrote: post #2

This is a link to a Twitter announcing a YouTube coming in 1/2 hour. Does / did the YouTube contain the announcement? Now that Twitter has gone subscriber only, we can't see any context around tweets. I think they should be DOA now when posted to HN as they do not allow for follow up or rtfaing.

I'm not sure what you mean by twitter going "subscriber only". I pay them nothing per month and I just opened this link in an incognito window with no trouble...

You can only see one tweet, not a thread.

Re: Rich Sutton joins John Carmack's Keen Technologies

#14

Post by version_five »

fzzzy wrote: post #12
throwaway-blaze wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure what you mean by twitter going "subscriber only". I pay them nothing per month and I just opened this link in an incognito window with no trouble...

You can only see one tweet, not a thread.

Yes exactly. And I find many tweets only make any sense either because they are a reply or the beginning of a thread or something. Or maybe the tweet is all there is, but you'd need to know that. With the new format you just get the orphaned tweet and don't know where it fits in. It's imo not really an appropriate way of sharing information anymore.

Re: Rich Sutton joins John Carmack's Keen Technologies

#15

Post by version_five »

hcks wrote: post #13

Carmack is actually overhyped, didn’t contribute to AI, and is likely to never to.

Maybe true, but he's trying, investing his time and possibly his money in it. He could also just do nothing, it's cool that he's spending time thinking about it. What more could you ask for?

Re: Rich Sutton joins John Carmack's Keen Technologies

#16

Post by carabiner »

hcks wrote: post #13

Carmack is actually overhyped, didn’t contribute to AI, and is likely to never to.

Yep. Similar to his aerospace venture. Reminds me of that guy who thinks the F-16 is the greatest fighter jet of all time and all air warfare will be WW2 gun battles. Carmack and Sutton are classical thinkers who did great work in the past, but are also stuck in it.

Re: Rich Sutton joins John Carmack's Keen Technologies

#17

Post by mark_l_watson »

I have studied Rich's RL book (both editions), and enjoy his work and occasional talks on YouTube. Carmack is obviously talented. In the referenced YouTube announcement Carmack basically said that the average person should not really care about what they are doing right now, and the way they are funded they can take their time, not rush out any public systems or projects, etc. - at least that is the way I interpreted what he said.

Off topic, but: I used to think AGI was likely, but probably not until maybe 2040. After doing a deep dive into LLMs in the last 2 years, and generally deep learning for the eight years before that, I now think there is some real chance of having something that I consider AGI by 2030. Lately LLMs have become a little useful for graph datastore, KGs, etc. I think the missing piece is the ability of LLMs to handle reasoning, and seeing GPT-4's ability to write Prolog code given a problem description, it doesn't strain my imagination too much to think a breakthrough for reasoning could be here in a year or less.

Re: Rich Sutton joins John Carmack's Keen Technologies

#18

Post by fnordpiglet »

hcks wrote: post #13

Carmack is actually overhyped, didn’t contribute to AI, and is likely to never to.

Dude, carmack didn’t contribute to AI, but that doesn’t mean he didn’t contribute to anything. The guys brilliant at developing * with computers and can squeeze the utmost out of the least in very clever ways, but more than anything knows how to build and make things that work. Sutter brings the AI chops to the table. The deeply technical nerd that produces more before breakfast than most first quartile engineers at a FAANG in a career and the guy who essentially created the current AI techniques and mentored all the major contributors today.

Seems like a fairly compelling combination to me.

Re: Rich Sutton joins John Carmack's Keen Technologies

#20

Post by fnordpiglet »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #17

I have studied Rich's RL book (both editions), and enjoy his work and occasional talks on YouTube. Carmack is obviously talented. In the referenced YouTube announcement Carmack basically said that the average person should not really care about what they are doing right now, and the way they are funded they can take their time, not rush out any public systems or projects, etc. - at least that is the way I interpreted…

There are a fair amount of formal reasoning systems out there for various structured reasoning tasks. LLMs may not be able to reason, but they can specify things to be reasoned about in Gallina or OWL DT or whatever and defer. I think folks seem to think AGI will be a single model, while if you look at our primary example of human intelligence it’s many models interconnected. There’s no reason for, say, LLMs to have the ability to play chess or solve differential equations or recall facts or reason formally. These already have excellent solutions that you might as well use. It’s interesting to see how far they can go in these areas, but I’m not holding my breath for an LLM to be able to out math mathematica.
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