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Show HN: Bigcapital - A open-source alternative to QuickBooks

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Re: Show HN: Bigcapital - A open-source alternative to QuickBooks

#11

Post by barryrandall »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #4
candiddevmike wrote: post #3

I tried to evaluate Bigcapital but it's kind of a mess to deploy via self hosting. The docker-compose setup is really hard to break apart, the stack is bizarre (mongo, multiple myql databases, and redis), and the way you do upgrades and migrations left me feeling very uneasy. Additionally, my accountant wouldn't use anything this thing exports from what I can tell. For now I'm sticking with GnuCash, but I have my eye…

What's the most important features in an accounting system in your opinion? Are they of a kind, or are there some killer features on expensive commercial tools that the free fare can't match?

The biggest barrier to adoption that all new entrants to this market must overcome is finding finance and accounting professionals willing to use their product. The second is finding banks, auditors, and investors willing to use statements from an accounting package they've never heard of.

Re: Show HN: Bigcapital - A open-source alternative to QuickBooks

#12

Post by KronisLV »

badrequest wrote: post #7
candiddevmike wrote: post #3

I tried to evaluate Bigcapital but it's kind of a mess to deploy via self hosting. The docker-compose setup is really hard to break apart, the stack is bizarre (mongo, multiple myql databases, and redis), and the way you do upgrades and migrations left me feeling very uneasy. Additionally, my accountant wouldn't use anything this thing exports from what I can tell. For now I'm sticking with GnuCash, but I have my eye…

Anecdotally, we've seen a number of larger "open-source alternative to X" projects posted on HN of late that are technically self-deployable, but require so much up-front knowledge that it's not actually accessible to those who might truly be liberated by such software. I mean no slander or disrespect to anyone involved, but there was a DataDog alternative posted sometime in the last few weeks that had a docker-compo…

> I mean no slander or disrespect to anyone involved, but there was a DataDog alternative posted sometime in the last few weeks that had a docker-compose with like 15 containers in it.

Reminds me of Sentry: https://develop.sentry.dev/self-hosted/

This is their example docker-compose for self-hosting: https://github.com/getsentry/self-hosted/blob/master/docker-...

It has:

  - exim4 (smtp)
  - memcached
  - Redis
  - PostgreSQL
  - Zookeeper
  - Kafka
  - Clickhouse
  - geoipupdate
  - 18 containers for something called snuba (integrates with Clickhouse?)
  - 2 symbolicator containers
  - web app
  - cron
  - 18 other utility containers
  - Nginx
  - relay
  - 2 vroom containers
Meanwhile, as far as the other options in the APM space go, this is how Apache Skywalking looks like:

  - web app
  - back end API
  - database (Elasticsearch/OpenSearch, PostgreSQL, MariaDB/MySQL or something else)
I'm glad that generally it's good enough for my needs, because I can't imagine actually having to self-host Sentry. Then again, something like Graylog does log shipping better and without a doubt Sentry has lots of nice features... as long as you don't have to run it yourself, because many people out there won't realistically be able to do so.

> EDIT: the repo linked in the GP contains 3 instances of what you could call databases: MariaDB, Mongo, and Redis.

That's not too bad, though, but seems like an interesting choice (both a regular RDBMS and a NoSQL one; Redis would probably be useful for caching etc. for either).

Re: Show HN: Bigcapital - A open-source alternative to QuickBooks

#14

Post by xoa »

abouolia wrote: post #5
candiddevmike wrote: post #3

I tried to evaluate Bigcapital but it's kind of a mess to deploy via self hosting. The docker-compose setup is really hard to break apart, the stack is bizarre (mongo, multiple myql databases, and redis), and the way you do upgrades and migrations left me feeling very uneasy. Additionally, my accountant wouldn't use anything this thing exports from what I can tell. For now I'm sticking with GnuCash, but I have my eye…

The deployment is really easy to do and well documented with some FAQs you may face, yes there were some issues in setup before couple of months ago but we fixed them even the database migration now is automated. that is acceptable especially when you use a new technology. you can join to our Discord and the team will help you to deploy it on your machine.

>The deployment is really easy to do

I mean, fwiw here's what we do to deploy QuickBooks: double click on image or CD, drag/double click icon, follow any prompts, now it's done. Click on icon in dock to launch QB thereafter. There was no need to read any FAQS, join a Discord or even send an email. That would be my definition of "easy". I suppose "here is a VM image ready to go, download and click button/run command" wouldn't be terrible though still already a massive leap in needs over QuickBooks.

>that is acceptable especially when you use a new technology

QuickBooks had its first release 31 years ago. Like others say I'm sure there are reasons for the explosion in nested stacks upon stacks of complexity, but I'll admit I still find myself pretty befuddled about how we ended up here. I guess it looks like from the docs the goal is exclusively compete with the QB Cloud Service specifically so that takes a bigger stack, like you're building for B2B. But kind of feels like it's an odd choice of targeting here. QB was always aimed heavily at small, and eventually medium-small businesses. Huge places used other stuff. Small end of the scale are also the ones who face the most pain from the shift to subscription-only if you didn't snag a last physical copy. The docs say

>Bigcapital is built with a multi-tenancy architecture that allows multiple organizations to use the same software while keeping their data separate from each other

Is this actually something in demand here? Why wouldn't each one run their own, or if not just pay Intuit? Is the idea that various companies will offer Bigcapital services for sale? And it says "keeping data separate" but I don't see anything about E2EE in the docs or FAQ, though maybe it's buried somewhere. If the data is only separate based on user permissions what orgs are going to trust something as sensitive as business financial data to a multi-tenant situation for something unproven? I don't find it promising that the (incredibly sparse) docs have this to say about signups:

>The environment variable SIGNUP_DISABLED should be set to true to disable the signing up of new users. When set, the following facts hold:

So, does that imply that by default it's just open to the world and anyone can sign up? In 2023?

I guess I'll watch the project if only because subscription-only for QB sucks and I'm sure will be a problem eventually, but... I dunno. This isn't what I would have immediately thought of for "An open-source alternative to QuickBooks" in terms of approach.

Re: Show HN: Bigcapital - A open-source alternative to QuickBooks

#15

Post by nonrandomstring »

barryrandall wrote: post #11
nonrandomstring wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the most important features in an accounting system in your opinion? Are they of a kind, or are there some killer features on expensive commercial tools that the free fare can't match?

The biggest barrier to adoption that all new entrants to this market must overcome is finding finance and accounting professionals willing to use their product. The second is finding banks, auditors, and investors willing to use statements from an accounting package they've never heard of.

Thanks. What do you mean by "finding banks, auditors, and investors willing to use statements from an accounting package they've never heard of." ?

Is that a file compatibility issue. Are there not standard file formats for exchange of data in the financial industry?

Don't people, as a last resort maybe, just send a csv, or print the ledgers out on paper?

Re: Show HN: Bigcapital - A open-source alternative to QuickBooks

#16

Post by lovasoa »

candiddevmike wrote: post #3

I tried to evaluate Bigcapital but it's kind of a mess to deploy via self hosting. The docker-compose setup is really hard to break apart, the stack is bizarre (mongo, multiple myql databases, and redis), and the way you do upgrades and migrations left me feeling very uneasy. Additionally, my accountant wouldn't use anything this thing exports from what I can tell. For now I'm sticking with GnuCash, but I have my eye…

When I come across this scenario, I often ponder whether it's part of the business strategy for those who offer open-source software for free alongside a paid hosted version. There seems to be a conflict of interest at play here: the more user-friendly the software becomes in terms of installation and operation, the less appealing the hosted version appears.

I'm currently working on an open-source software project with a hosted version of my own (https://sql.ophir.dev). It's a website builder, and my aim is to turn the ease of deployment and operation into a competitive advantage, which is prominently highlighted on the homepage. However, I recognize that it might be overly idealistic to expect the same from others. My target audience mainly consists of individuals who will need to manage the software themselves. In contrast, in many other domains, the decision-makers selecting the software and the individuals responsible for its operation are not one and the same.

Re: Show HN: Bigcapital - A open-source alternative to QuickBooks

#17

Post by aidos »

KronisLV wrote: post #12
badrequest wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotally, we've seen a number of larger "open-source alternative to X" projects posted on HN of late that are technically self-deployable, but require so much up-front knowledge that it's not actually accessible to those who might truly be liberated by such software. I mean no slander or disrespect to anyone involved, but there was a DataDog alternative posted sometime in the last few weeks that had a docker-compo…

> I mean no slander or disrespect to anyone involved, but there was a DataDog alternative posted sometime in the last few weeks that had a docker-compose with like 15 containers in it. Reminds me of Sentry: https://develop.sentry.dev/self-hosted/ This is their example docker-compose for self-hosting: https://github.com/getsentry/self-hosted/blob/master/docker-... It has: - exim4 (smtp) - memcached - Redis - PostgreSQ…

Sentry is definitely a bit heavyweight on the services. Though, it makes sense since you’re effectively running everything they run for their saas business built for a whole other scale.

The trade off is that it’s far more complex than what anybody needs if they just want to run sentry locally. It used to be a lot simpler but now it’s pretty much impossible to even understand how they store data without spending a long time studying it.

To be fair to them though, their migrations and releases have generally been solid and reliable.

Re: Show HN: Bigcapital - A open-source alternative to QuickBooks

#18

Post by dboreham »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #15
barryrandall wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest barrier to adoption that all new entrants to this market must overcome is finding finance and accounting professionals willing to use their product. The second is finding banks, auditors, and investors willing to use statements from an accounting package they've never heard of.

Thanks. What do you mean by "finding banks, auditors, and investors willing to use statements from an accounting package they've never heard of." ? Is that a file compatibility issue. Are there not standard file formats for exchange of data in the financial industry? Don't people, as a last resort maybe, just send a csv, or print the ledgers out on paper?

The standard file format is "Quick books backup".

Re: Show HN: Bigcapital - A open-source alternative to QuickBooks

#19

Post by abdullahkhalids »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #15
barryrandall wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The biggest barrier to adoption that all new entrants to this market must overcome is finding finance and accounting professionals willing to use their product. The second is finding banks, auditors, and investors willing to use statements from an accounting package they've never heard of.

Thanks. What do you mean by "finding banks, auditors, and investors willing to use statements from an accounting package they've never heard of." ? Is that a file compatibility issue. Are there not standard file formats for exchange of data in the financial industry? Don't people, as a last resort maybe, just send a csv, or print the ledgers out on paper?

There are a few different standards. The problem with the generic csv is that headers still need to be specified. Otherwise, the person doing the importing has to specify/confirm what each column means.

Re: Show HN: Bigcapital - A open-source alternative to QuickBooks

#20

Post by dboreham »

nonrandomstring wrote: post #4
candiddevmike wrote: post #3

I tried to evaluate Bigcapital but it's kind of a mess to deploy via self hosting. The docker-compose setup is really hard to break apart, the stack is bizarre (mongo, multiple myql databases, and redis), and the way you do upgrades and migrations left me feeling very uneasy. Additionally, my accountant wouldn't use anything this thing exports from what I can tell. For now I'm sticking with GnuCash, but I have my eye…

What's the most important features in an accounting system in your opinion? Are they of a kind, or are there some killer features on expensive commercial tools that the free fare can't match?

Payroll.
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