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People who can't give up paper
71–80 of 168 posts
Re: People who can't give up paper
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
I always carry my (N-1)th phone in my suitcase in case of such an event.
Or for those with true tourist savvy, carry (N-1)th phone as primary in pickpocket public, and your current, flashy, expensive device is your backup instead.
I’m not sure I’m quite that paranoid but I can’t really argue. And already pretty much do it with the computer I travel with—my 8 year old laptop. But eg N-1 probably doesn’t have as good a camera if you do every 3-4 years like me.
With some extended personal travel coming up I’ll definitely think about my strategies.
Re: People who can't give up paper
#73for everybody still on physical medium (be it paper, board, whatever), did you try to leverage digital tools thinking it would allow wider expressiveness, faster iteration, more precision and yet came back to paper ? if so do you think it's due to cultural habit (being raised on pen and paper) or maybe a neurological need (paper requires more psycho/physical stimulation, you have to draw geometries, letters, organise…
for everybody still on physical medium (be it paper, board, whatever), did you try to leverage digital tools thinking it would allow wider expressiveness, faster iteration, more precision and yet came back to paper ?
Dude, I have been trying digital tools since I thought that one of these things[0] would replace my Franklin Planner. I'll save you a click, that was over 30 years ago. Yeah, I use the hell out of some digital tools ("hey dingus, add bananas to the grocery list"). But the first thing I grab in the morning is a paper notebook[1] to plan my day, using the "bullet journal" style that I've settled on these past few years. Every digital tool I've tried just turns into an abyss-like dumping ground where tasks go to die (and never get completed).
I don't know why, maybe it's the lack of spatiality with digital tools. Or an abstraction too far, I don't know. I just know that I'd been pounding that square peg into that round hole for decades, until I finally just gave in went back to paper. Bullet journal style, nice notebook, and a nice fountain pen works for me for most of my organization, and it's probably what I'll stick with.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharp_Wizard [1] https://www.leuchtturm1917.us
Re: People who can't give up paper
#74I've worked in tech as a software engineer developing web applications for 25 years and I'm one of these people. For note taking, I prefer pen and paper. For diagramming and brainstorming, I prefer a physical whiteboard. For non-work related scheduling, I prefer marking things on the physical calendar hanging on my wall... or sometimes I'll reach for a post-it note. For bills, I prefer that my company mail me a paper…
Throwing another anecdotal example: Everyone in the gym looks at me like I’m twice my age jotting down my lifts in my notebook. It’s so much less stressful than navigating BS mobile UI stat entry between sets. I say that as someone who develops mobile UI on a daily basis. It’s hard to mistype with a pen.
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Re: People who can't give up paper
#75> Paper, it seems, still rules the waves. You'd be crazy to get rid of paper charts on a boat, for the same reason any hiker is instructed to carry a paper map, and the smart ones actually do it. Yeah, the primary system will be GPS, but that system requires a lot of things to be functioning which may not always be functioning. You need a backup, and paper is perfect for that.
Ya, lunacy to do any outdoors without paper map + compass beyond the there-and-back loop where you can still hear car traffic.
Does anyone know how to use a map and compass? I don't think I could outside a city.
Everyone talks about the physical maps, but the bigger issue is without the skill the map is useless, and if you've always had a phone, the true terror of being lost and alone might not enter your mind till you're there.
I guess I'm lucky that I often forget my charger and wind up having no clue where I am and trying to get back by asking directions, I'm well aware of how awful it is to have no idea where you are or what direction you're facing or if you're in the right city!
Re: People who can't give up paper
#76I use computer and also write on paper a lot (I usually use a pencil rather than a pen, although some people prefer to use a pen). Writing on paper it can be done anywhere (and I commonly do in many places), and regardless of power outage, etc, and is also easier to give to someone else, than a computer (and do not have to worry about the incompatibility of computers, etc). I could also store them anywhere.
Also for calendar, you can write it on a paper if you have a calendar on the wall; and, if you want to write notes on a paper next to something that it is relevant to (e.g. program numbers on a radio), then you can do that.
Paper can also be reused (especially if you write on both sides) and recycled, and should be done more; even you might have spare paper that you can write notes, etc.
They also mention package materials. I do think that reusable packaging materials would be better. (Reusable stuff is better in general.)
Re: People who can't give up paper
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I think you are severely underestimating the complexity of preserving digital data for 200+ years although I doubt my personal notes will be necessary in 200+ years
Big same. It might be a curiosity to my kids (or grandkids if I have those) but I doubt anyone beyond that will care
Your personal notes are probably not significant in and of themselves, but historians will certainly care if no one's personal notes from today are preserved 200 years from now.
Re: People who can't give up paper
#78Earlier quoted context omitted.
> I can bet a notes written today in a paper notebook - would be accessible 200+ years from now. compared to notes written in some notebook app I think it's the opposite, at least if you use obsidian or just md files. With paper notes, they can get lost more easily, there are no backups. In many countries, termites are a real problem (tell that to my damaged comic books and magic cards). If you use md files (which ar…
I think you are severely underestimating the complexity of preserving digital data for 200+ years. It’s not trivial, but a family could totally put a box of notebooks and loose papers in a box in a dry/somewhat safe location and pretty much guarantee they will still be usable/viewable in 200+ years without any electricity/file format/solar flare/emp/etc/etc issues to have to consider. I’m not disagreeing that it’s wo…
Most paper will not last 200 years in a normal climate. The acid treatment often used ensures it will break down in less than that. Sure if you actually have a dry climate and archival grade paper it can last thousands of years. However most of us don't have that.
However most of us don't need that either. There are very few things you care about. I threw my kindergarten art out long ago when I realized I wasn't interested in seeing how I improved (back then I thought it would be cool to look back and see). There are things I have done I will care about, but not too many.
Re: People who can't give up paper
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Ya, lunacy to do any outdoors without paper map + compass beyond the there-and-back loop where you can still hear car traffic.
Does anyone know how to use a map and compass? I don't think I could outside a city. Everyone talks about the physical maps, but the bigger issue is without the skill the map is useless, and if you've always had a phone, the true terror of being lost and alone might not enter your mind till you're there. I guess I'm lucky that I often forget my charger and wind up having no clue where I am and trying to get back by a…
Sure. I usually just use GPS but I absolutely know how to read a trail map. Orienteering off-trail is a bit rusty but I can absolutely deal with most map and compass navigation.
Re: People who can't give up paper
#80People have been trained to fetishize "new" technology and dump on "old" technology. Frankly put: new is not always better. A technology is just a technology, and "new" technologies almost always introduce regressions along with whatever benefits the they bring. For instance: paper documents are generally more robust/reliable (as a practical matter), easily attached to physical items, and easier to annotate than any…
I think paper probably really does have value for mental retention, but digital is so convenient it's easy to totally forget paper is a thing. Paper is easier to annotate, but if you didn't grow up with lots of paper, you don't notice, because annotating isn't something you think about, you mostly think in terms of quoting and leaving a comment. The medium shapes your thinking, and the stuff that's hard to do on pape…
> Paper is easier to annotate, but if you didn't grow up with lots of paper, you don't notice, because annotating isn't something you think about, you mostly think in terms of quoting and leaving a comment.
In other words, people can be fine with worse because they don't know better.
One of the things that should be a deep embarrassment to the technology industry is its failure to replicate some of the strengths of paper and make them ubiquitous across platforms. Things actually seem to be settling for a lowest-common-denominator that's getting ever lower (e.g. people regularly resort to screenshotting text in 2023).
> Perhaps that's the big benefit, adding more variety of ways of thinking.
One of the strengths of paper is its flexibility: you can make pretty much any mark you want, not just marks approved and implemented by some 3rd party. You seem to be describing a situation where technical limitations (of digital systems) are so ingrained in people's thought processes that they have trouble thinking outside the little box they've been given.