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People who can't give up paper

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Re: People who can't give up paper

#51

I've worked in tech as a software engineer developing web applications for 25 years and I'm one of these people. For note taking, I prefer pen and paper. For diagramming and brainstorming, I prefer a physical whiteboard. For non-work related scheduling, I prefer marking things on the physical calendar hanging on my wall... or sometimes I'll reach for a post-it note. For bills, I prefer that my company mail me a paper…

I'm the same, I think it's literally because I used pen and paper all day in school and that's just what I'm used to.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#52

I've worked in tech as a software engineer developing web applications for 25 years and I'm one of these people. For note taking, I prefer pen and paper. For diagramming and brainstorming, I prefer a physical whiteboard. For non-work related scheduling, I prefer marking things on the physical calendar hanging on my wall... or sometimes I'll reach for a post-it note. For bills, I prefer that my company mail me a paper…

Paper just works . Whether it's for notes, menus, or voting, paper has a lot of really desirable properties: it's cheap, easily understood, minimal room for external dependencies or BS. The moment you introduce software and internet connectivity is the moment you invite fragility and inscrutability.

Amazon removing 1984 on people's kindles all the way back in 2009 was a wake-up call. Digital media/content is open to revision in a way that physical media/content is not.

I have swung back around and now buy many physical books/blurays/etc for things I really love or think are important because my faith that companies/govt won't decide I cant have that version anymore is very low.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#53

I've worked in tech as a software engineer developing web applications for 25 years and I'm one of these people. For note taking, I prefer pen and paper. For diagramming and brainstorming, I prefer a physical whiteboard. For non-work related scheduling, I prefer marking things on the physical calendar hanging on my wall... or sometimes I'll reach for a post-it note. For bills, I prefer that my company mail me a paper…

Same, iOS developer here. Maybe if software were treated less like fashion that had to constantly be updated, resulting in a neverending revolving door of bugs and new waves of learning curves, and instead like a focused tool, it could catch up more to paper. There are absolutely benefits to software over paper but they feel hamstrung by the constant desire to roll out the next UI paradigm. Sooner or later the set of…

> If I squint enough I can see how a pen running out of ink is like an app crash

Interesting analogy. I think a closer analogy to a pen running out of ink and having to grab another pen, is a laptop battery running low and having to be plugged in.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#54

for everybody still on physical medium (be it paper, board, whatever), did you try to leverage digital tools thinking it would allow wider expressiveness, faster iteration, more precision and yet came back to paper ? if so do you think it's due to cultural habit (being raised on pen and paper) or maybe a neurological need (paper requires more psycho/physical stimulation, you have to draw geometries, letters, organise…

Two years ago I moved back to paper for my productivity and notetaking after about 7 years going fully digital. There are a lot of advantages for me. Some of those may apply to others:

- Tactile feeling and aesthetics. My writing is not very beautiful, but a stack of papers filled with my notes and diagrams is very inspiring.

- Paper is an offline, distraction-free medium. I think better with paper. Maybe it is a cultural habit.

- Paper won't disappear one day due to bad battery, untested OS update, malware, EOL for cloud service etc. Losing a couple of sheets of paper is easier than electronic device. But when speaking about losing a bulk of notes, it is much easier to lose it electronically than physically.

- Paper is forgiving. I can draw quick-and-dirty diagram in a minute and move on. It is hard to draw quick-and-dirty diagram on a computer. I will spend at least a couple of minutes deciding which app will be more convenient to draw this diagram, about ten minutes fighting an app, and up to an hour fighting my perfectionism, placing all shapes in proper places in grid.

- A sheet of paper is bounded, which helps with internal distractions. If I need to make a TODO list, I will take a smaller sheet, and fit all important things there.

- When you have large desk, you can spread a lot of paper sheets on it and see it all at the same time. Rearrange it, put it in stacks by some criterion, and so on. And neither scrolling nor list of thumbnails work as good as flipping through a paper book.

Disadvantages are:

- Lack of search function. I didn't try Apple Notes document scanning recently, maybe some kind of handwriting recognition is there and it will be enough to just take photos of all my notes.

- Portability: I need a desk with enough free space for both laptop and papers (so, mostly in terms of depth - probably a problem for open space offices).

I have some hopes for Apple Vision Pro (maybe in V2 or V3). I think it has a potential to bring some of these advantages to digital world :)

Re: People who can't give up paper

#55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always fascinated with the folks who still carry paper sectionals.. at any given time in the cockpit Ive got three digital sources of charts that would have to fail, not counting whatever onboard gps I'm flying behind (primary tablet, backup tablet, phone).. I just can't find the point in carrying paper anymore, at least for my risk matrix.. Re: GPS failure, that's orthogonal to the paper argument, since paper do…

You’ll know the value of it when your electronics bork out in a no-fail situation. Or it’s a stress situation and the quick reference chart on paper can be eyeballed while the iPad requires a couple clicks. It happens eventually.

Three independent electronic devices (two tablets and a phone) running different operating systems would need to fail. And for this to then become an emergency, I would need to be in IMC, also have my onboard installed GPS fail, along with all installed radio equipment.

Short of an EMP event or wildly bad decision making on my part, the risk of this is vanishingly small.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#56
Too be fair I don't think the anti-paper crowd are talking about me. The amount of paper I consume is minuscule compared to large businesses. I use paper a lot more than the average person. I make paper from recycled junk mail, and I hand write all of my notes. I retain things better when I write them down on paper. I also look at screens for 12 hours a day so staring at a piece of paper is a reprieve.

My only concern with moving entirely to digital is that it is not strictly better. Digital should be the best way to consume media but it often isn't. I don't own the digital media like I do with physical media. Buying brand new digital media is also waaay more expensive then getting used books on Ebay. This is all on top of the fact that we can barely keep services around for more than 10 years without them going away and being stuck with proprietary formats that are not accessible anymore.

I am concerned for the day where everything is all digital, and then something catastrophic happens and we lose a significant chunk of our information. But maybe I'm just giving myself FUD

Re: People who can't give up paper

#57
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a ton of situations where it’s really a good idea to have a paper backup. Traveling, especially internationally, and you lose your phone in a taxi? Do you know your itinerary and where you’re staying? I’m not religious about it for simple trips where I know where I’m staying but I definitely make a printout for anything more complex—but I bet a lot of people don’t.

I was on my first travel trip to Rome, and dropped my phone & damaged it at Amsterdam airport while trying to charge it. All maps, instructions, how to reach hotel, public transportation help, everything was in that phone. God helped & Rome airport had public computer terminals at airport. Found some scrap paper, & drew the general directions to hotel.

I always carry my (N-1)th phone in my suitcase in case of such an event.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#58
post #23

People have been trained to fetishize "new" technology and dump on "old" technology. Frankly put: new is not always better. A technology is just a technology, and "new" technologies almost always introduce regressions along with whatever benefits the they bring. For instance: paper documents are generally more robust/reliable (as a practical matter), easily attached to physical items, and easier to annotate than any…

I think paper probably really does have value for mental retention, but digital is so convenient it's easy to totally forget paper is a thing.

Paper is easier to annotate, but if you didn't grow up with lots of paper, you don't notice, because annotating isn't something you think about, you mostly think in terms of quoting and leaving a comment.

The medium shapes your thinking, and the stuff that's hard to do on paper doesn't really occur to you as something you'd want to do, unless you're deeply familiar with it. Just like any technology.

Perhaps that's the big benefit, adding more variety of ways of thinking.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#59
Paper has two objective advantages over digital: It's reliable and it doesn't scale. That makes it the only option for elections as any compromise of a digital system would instantly decide the outcome. With paper, a bag of ballots might be lost or a few fake ones introduced, but none of these attacks scale very well so if we can prevent most of them, that's good enough.

I won't touch on preferring paper for visualizing thoughts because that's just preference, but seeing people prefer paper invoices over digital ones is just sad to see. On a conceptual level digital should always be preferrable, but we somehow managed to screw the inplementation up so bad that it's worse than no implementation.

Why do we need to overcomplicate everything?

Re: People who can't give up paper

#60

I've worked in tech as a software engineer developing web applications for 25 years and I'm one of these people. For note taking, I prefer pen and paper. For diagramming and brainstorming, I prefer a physical whiteboard. For non-work related scheduling, I prefer marking things on the physical calendar hanging on my wall... or sometimes I'll reach for a post-it note. For bills, I prefer that my company mail me a paper…

Paper just works . Whether it's for notes, menus, or voting, paper has a lot of really desirable properties: it's cheap, easily understood, minimal room for external dependencies or BS. The moment you introduce software and internet connectivity is the moment you invite fragility and inscrutability.

The security properties are also really really different, and really intuitive, and quite strong too: if you have physical possession you have total access, otherwise none at all.

With a computing device, only if you are certain there is no wifi/bluetooth/cellular/etc hardware inside the device, can you have a similar trust. And the days are rapidly coming when there's no such thing as a device without such hardware, not even a watch.

With computing devices, you do get the ability to encrypt data at rest, so for example, a locked physical paper diary is less secure in that sense than an encrypted text file. But the possible number of actors that would attempt to break the security for a physical paper document is much lower, only whoever is nearby, not everyone on the entire internet.

If I had something I really didn't want to get out, these days, I'd be much more likely to recommend the use of a notebook in a safe than an encrypted file on a laptop or phone or something. It doesn't matter how encrypted it is if my device gets compromised.

(If it had to be electronic, it'd be a laptop with no working networking hardware, in a safe.)

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