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People who can't give up paper

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Re: People who can't give up paper

#41

Post by davchana »

ghaff wrote: post #26
karaterobot wrote: post #19

> Paper, it seems, still rules the waves. You'd be crazy to get rid of paper charts on a boat, for the same reason any hiker is instructed to carry a paper map, and the smart ones actually do it. Yeah, the primary system will be GPS, but that system requires a lot of things to be functioning which may not always be functioning. You need a backup, and paper is perfect for that.

There are a ton of situations where it’s really a good idea to have a paper backup. Traveling, especially internationally, and you lose your phone in a taxi? Do you know your itinerary and where you’re staying? I’m not religious about it for simple trips where I know where I’m staying but I definitely make a printout for anything more complex—but I bet a lot of people don’t.

I was on my first travel trip to Rome, and dropped my phone & damaged it at Amsterdam airport while trying to charge it. All maps, instructions, how to reach hotel, public transportation help, everything was in that phone.

God helped & Rome airport had public computer terminals at airport. Found some scrap paper, & drew the general directions to hotel.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#43

Post by dogman144 »

Really dislike the “give up” terminology and related digital nudging in group/out group.

Just like I can’t give up:

- paperless billing bc I’d like ironclad proof I’ve paid my mortgage off and have experienced plenty of database failures

- driving without an insurance black box plugged into my car for a few % off my insurance

- cash because it saves the small business a few % points and I’ve (/s) never seen a POS crash and burn before

- paper maps bc you’re completely insane to do outdoors stuff without a paper map and analog compass. When you have the emergency that needs it, you’ll understand.

The best success IT has had is convincing the world that the digital metaphor is as good, No… better! A total replacement! Stop killing the environment paper-man! … than the analog thing.

I have no idea how you can work in and around technology and have this mindset. I get sketched flying on software-defined airplanes these days even. If the scheduling software falls over under load.. I’m sure that implies every other airline software is A+!

Re: People who can't give up paper

#45

Post by the_snooze »

gspencley wrote: post #17

I've worked in tech as a software engineer developing web applications for 25 years and I'm one of these people. For note taking, I prefer pen and paper. For diagramming and brainstorming, I prefer a physical whiteboard. For non-work related scheduling, I prefer marking things on the physical calendar hanging on my wall... or sometimes I'll reach for a post-it note. For bills, I prefer that my company mail me a paper…

Paper just works. Whether it's for notes, menus, or voting, paper has a lot of really desirable properties: it's cheap, easily understood, minimal room for external dependencies or BS.

The moment you introduce software and internet connectivity is the moment you invite fragility and inscrutability.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#46

Post by eternityforest »

I like the idea of paper. It's got some pretty cool uses. Sometimes I think I probably should use it more. Most of my favorite works of art, buildings I've enjoyed being in, an even a lot of tech had their beginnings on a page.

But it's never something I just casually reach for, the thought of using physical media just doesn't really ever occur to me unless I'm specifically going out of my way. Digital is so much easier, no fighting your hands to make the letters readable, no worrying about losing anything, no need to physically sort things, no need to have dedicated space and time for it thanks to the portability and durability of the screen.

The UI changes, apps go obsolete, but keeping up is just a matter of stuff you can learn on a random blog, not stuff that requires the long, hard process of figuring out how to translate thoughts into spatial patterns, which nobody can even describe really.

It seems like using paper at least occasionally is probably a good idea. It's definitely gotten easier now that we have cheap space pens and A5 format binders that are a little more convenient than full pages.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#47

Post by pimlottc »

V__ wrote: post #30

One of the great festures of using paper is, that it exists physically. I can see my stack of to-dos or bills or notes and this also helps remembeing where what what is. I don't have this experience using digital. My brain just remembers computer as the general location. I loose all spacial intuition. On the other side, this is great for anything I don't want to remember.

This is an actual problem in government modernization projects. When legacy paper-based systems get overburdened, it's impossible not to notice growing stacks of file folders everywhere: on desks, on carts, in file cabinets, on shelves, in storerooms and storage facilities.

But when the new digital systems back up, it's invisible. What's a few hundred thousand rows to a modern database?

Re: People who can't give up paper

#48

Post by all2 »

eternityforest wrote: post #46

I like the idea of paper. It's got some pretty cool uses. Sometimes I think I probably should use it more. Most of my favorite works of art, buildings I've enjoyed being in, an even a lot of tech had their beginnings on a page. But it's never something I just casually reach for, the thought of using physical media just doesn't really ever occur to me unless I'm specifically going out of my way. Digital is so much eas…

I think differently on paper. For some reason my entire mode of reasoning shifts and the way I process information becomes different. Could I write the same thing in Vim? Sure. But for some reason paper makes my thoughts more careful, more substantial, as if the input latency gives me time to think.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#49

Post by histriosum »

_moof wrote: post #29
histriosum wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm always fascinated with the folks who still carry paper sectionals.. at any given time in the cockpit Ive got three digital sources of charts that would have to fail, not counting whatever onboard gps I'm flying behind (primary tablet, backup tablet, phone).. I just can't find the point in carrying paper anymore, at least for my risk matrix.. Re: GPS failure, that's orthogonal to the paper argument, since paper do…

"Paper doesn't provide GPS" - spoken like a child of the magenta line! ;) Paper provides the VOR frequencies and visual navigation info, and approach procedures if you're really in a bind. It's also cheaper than a second tablet.

I'm not sure if you're intentionally misreading my comment. It was in reply to your statement that GPS failure was a "real concern". I simply noted that GPS failure is orthogonal to the paper discussion.

I'm quite happy to use pilotage to navigate, but lugging four sectionals around is a waste of my time and a waste of the FAAs resources to print. My state won the "let's see how annoying we can make these sectional divisions" contest. Just my local flying area is split onto three charts.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#50

Post by cal85 »

_moof wrote: post #11

For me personally paper is indispensable as a design tool for sketching out complex systems. I "think" more clearly on paper than I do with any digital tool I've used. In an aviation context I mostly use an iPad these days (learned to fly long before iPads were a thing) but I carry some backup paper charts. I've had chargers fail mid-trip and the electronic flight bag apps are real power hogs. And that's not to menti…

> I "think" more clearly on paper than I do with any digital tool I've used.

I have no specialist knowledge but my theory is this is at least partly down to the fact that it utilises our highly evolved fine motor control system. Compared to prodding chimpishly at a glass screen, using paper and pens/tools requires a more intricate system of movement and tactile feedback, which implies a more elaborate dance of of neurons and neurotransmitters in the brain and nervous system – and somehow our capacity to "think" is boosted by this extra activity.

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