Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

People who can't give up paper

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

21–30 of 168 posts

Re: People who can't give up paper

#21

Post by histriosum »

_moof wrote: post #11

For me personally paper is indispensable as a design tool for sketching out complex systems. I "think" more clearly on paper than I do with any digital tool I've used. In an aviation context I mostly use an iPad these days (learned to fly long before iPads were a thing) but I carry some backup paper charts. I've had chargers fail mid-trip and the electronic flight bag apps are real power hogs. And that's not to menti…

I'm always fascinated with the folks who still carry paper sectionals.. at any given time in the cockpit Ive got three digital sources of charts that would have to fail, not counting whatever onboard gps I'm flying behind (primary tablet, backup tablet, phone).. I just can't find the point in carrying paper anymore, at least for my risk matrix..

Re: GPS failure, that's orthogonal to the paper argument, since paper doesn't provide GPS either..

I personally am looking forward to the day when paper charts stop being printed! Huge waste of resources that could be better allocated..

Re: People who can't give up paper

#22

Post by PumpkinSpice »

It's fairly clear that paper is being driven out of most white collar settings. It's still invaluable in many blue collar jobs. Phones don't work all that well when you're wearing work gloves, ports get clogged with debris, screens crack when you're crawling through narrow openings or pushing heavy stuff.

I have pencils and post-its in my electronics lab and I use them when working on digital circuits.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#23

Post by tivert »

People have been trained to fetishize "new" technology and dump on "old" technology. Frankly put: new is not always better. A technology is just a technology, and "new" technologies almost always introduce regressions along with whatever benefits the they bring.

For instance: paper documents are generally more robust/reliable (as a practical matter), easily attached to physical items, and easier to annotate than any kind of digital document. Digital input methods are usually pretty awful, especially when you don't have the luxury of fumbling around for a few seconds (or more) with each input.

IMHO, any reasonable-aware tech professional should be able to understand that. Especially given how frequently computer technology objectively sucks.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#24

Post by agumonkey »

for everybody still on physical medium (be it paper, board, whatever), did you try to leverage digital tools thinking it would allow wider expressiveness, faster iteration, more precision and yet came back to paper ?

if so do you think it's due to cultural habit (being raised on pen and paper) or maybe a neurological need (paper requires more psycho/physical stimulation, you have to draw geometries, letters, organise.. that cost might be actually beneficial for your brain way of working)

Re: People who can't give up paper

#25

Post by stronglikedan »

Another paper user checking in. I even have two different types of pads. One with thin paper for taking notes in meetings and such, since they will be deciphered to better paper later, and the thin paper will be recycled. One for more robust paper to which said notes will be deciphered and arranged, which is also used for real work. Plus I find it very hard to read from screens, even e-ink, so I tend to print things out if it's going to be a long read.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#26

Post by ghaff »

karaterobot wrote: post #19

> Paper, it seems, still rules the waves. You'd be crazy to get rid of paper charts on a boat, for the same reason any hiker is instructed to carry a paper map, and the smart ones actually do it. Yeah, the primary system will be GPS, but that system requires a lot of things to be functioning which may not always be functioning. You need a backup, and paper is perfect for that.

There are a ton of situations where it’s really a good idea to have a paper backup. Traveling, especially internationally, and you lose your phone in a taxi? Do you know your itinerary and where you’re staying?

I’m not religious about it for simple trips where I know where I’m staying but I definitely make a printout for anything more complex—but I bet a lot of people don’t.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#27

Post by TheCapeGreek »

Sometimes I want to get more into paper, so I have an excuse to buy pretty notebooks. I do that about once a year and never end up using it right now.

Secondarily, hearing about our risks of EMPs from solar flares (or even in war scenarios), or in case of electrical grid collapse (a not-impossible scenario in some countries), paper is the only way I'll have survival knowledge available to me.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#28

Post by sixstringtheory »

gspencley wrote: post #17

I've worked in tech as a software engineer developing web applications for 25 years and I'm one of these people. For note taking, I prefer pen and paper. For diagramming and brainstorming, I prefer a physical whiteboard. For non-work related scheduling, I prefer marking things on the physical calendar hanging on my wall... or sometimes I'll reach for a post-it note. For bills, I prefer that my company mail me a paper…

Same, iOS developer here. Maybe if software were treated less like fashion that had to constantly be updated, resulting in a neverending revolving door of bugs and new waves of learning curves, and instead like a focused tool, it could catch up more to paper.

There are absolutely benefits to software over paper but they feel hamstrung by the constant desire to roll out the next UI paradigm. Sooner or later the set of constraints between device, OS and app versions forces an upgrade. Security updates should be the only reason to even hint at that possibility IMO.

Maybe I’m just too close to the problem. If I squint enough I can see how a pen running out of ink is like an app crash, and replacing the pen/ink has a real, nonzero environmental cost. I’m not sure how to amortize the costs of device manufacture and software development across all bugs, and compare that to the costs/benefits of pen and paper. There is some shade of rose on my glasses, no doubt.

I need more information, but I sense it’s not the kind of information that is important to many people, and especially corporations, to gather.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#29

Post by _moof »

histriosum wrote: post #21
_moof wrote: post #11

For me personally paper is indispensable as a design tool for sketching out complex systems. I "think" more clearly on paper than I do with any digital tool I've used. In an aviation context I mostly use an iPad these days (learned to fly long before iPads were a thing) but I carry some backup paper charts. I've had chargers fail mid-trip and the electronic flight bag apps are real power hogs. And that's not to menti…

I'm always fascinated with the folks who still carry paper sectionals.. at any given time in the cockpit Ive got three digital sources of charts that would have to fail, not counting whatever onboard gps I'm flying behind (primary tablet, backup tablet, phone).. I just can't find the point in carrying paper anymore, at least for my risk matrix.. Re: GPS failure, that's orthogonal to the paper argument, since paper do…

"Paper doesn't provide GPS" - spoken like a child of the magenta line! ;)

Paper provides the VOR frequencies and visual navigation info, and approach procedures if you're really in a bind. It's also cheaper than a second tablet.

Re: People who can't give up paper

#30

Post by V__ »

One of the great festures of using paper is, that it exists physically. I can see my stack of to-dos or bills or notes and this also helps remembeing where what what is. I don't have this experience using digital. My brain just remembers computer as the general location. I loose all spacial intuition. On the other side, this is great for anything I don't want to remember.
Post reply on HN