So why can't those nice guys from the FBI go and do it already? It's so easy to replace sites when piracy is involved...
Victims of piracy have better lobbyists than the victims of identity theft.
Please do not take down the Sality botnet
21–30 of 148 posts
Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet
#22Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because technically the methods used (i.e. SQL injection) are illegal if you dont own the equipment your using it on. Also he is a civilian and does not have any power or jurisdiction to do so.
Slightly off-topic: Is SQL injection itself illegal? Because I was under the impression that only using SQL injection to gain unauthorized access to someone else's computer (like the OP is suggesting) was illegal.
You can do SQLi against your own database 24x7 and you'd be just fine in the eyes of the law.
Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet
#23Does anyone know exactly why it's illegal to take down Sality?
Messing with other people's computers in any form without their information and consent is usually prohibited by law. A slightly broken analogy would be breaking into a house to remove a hornets nest. Even if you do it carefully and not do any damage and what you do is beneficial for the community as a whole, it's contrary to the law.
If my neighbours hornets nest had killer hornets that were biting all the children in the neighbourhood and the police / council refused to do anything; then it'd be a damned shame if someone neatly removed the hornets nest.
Of course that wouldn't make it any more legal; but your defence would have a field day with the prosecution I'd imagine.
IANAL but I've watched the first double episode of The Firm, and I reckon I've got a pretty good grasp on how the law works now!
Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet
#24I would love to hear a lawyers opinion on whether the OP has any legal case whatsoever if his "not suggestions" are ever used, his identity is identified, and someone decides they want to throw the book at him. Basically, if some DA decides this is modern day vigalanteism, a step removed - could the OP ever defend himself in court?
Not a lawyer. But this would never come to pass - no DA would have the brains let alone the skill or political will to prosecute. Also, seems like a freedom of speech issue. Otherwise it would be difficult for educators to discuss computer security. In fact, I'm pretty sure he could even do away with all of the "non-suggestion" text and still be fine. If I say, "I think you should hack website X, humanity will be bet…
I agree that a DA would be highly unlikely to prosecute as it would take a large amount of effort for little gain, but this clearly fits the definition of conspiracy. There is no requirement that conspirators know each other, and posting the files required seems like an overt step.
Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet
#25Does anyone know exactly why it's illegal to take down Sality?
Is that network yours? No? Then it's illegal. It's an interesting way to have someone do the dirty work. I would love to see a postmortem writeup.
Is "breaking into" a shanty town built on my neighbourhood's various front lawns illegal?
Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet
#26I would love to hear a lawyers opinion on whether the OP has any legal case whatsoever if his "not suggestions" are ever used, his identity is identified, and someone decides they want to throw the book at him. Basically, if some DA decides this is modern day vigalanteism, a step removed - could the OP ever defend himself in court?
Not a lawyer. But this would never come to pass - no DA would have the brains let alone the skill or political will to prosecute. Also, seems like a freedom of speech issue. Otherwise it would be difficult for educators to discuss computer security. In fact, I'm pretty sure he could even do away with all of the "non-suggestion" text and still be fine. If I say, "I think you should hack website X, humanity will be bet…
There is a huge difference between "I think you should hack this website." and "I think you should use this method I'm providing to hack this website."
Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet
#27Does anyone know exactly why it's illegal to take down Sality?
While yes this is technically illegal, honest question does the letter of the law stand in a situation where those "wronged" by the infraction are themselves in the wrong? From a legal standpoint, charges would have to be brought against you by someone, and I doubt that anyone who sustained damage from this situation (the bot network's owner) would have the ability to demonstrate such a thing without substantially in…
'where those wronged by the infraction are themselves in the wrong' - it is certainly possible for this to be a crime, consider killing a burglar.
Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not a lawyer. But this would never come to pass - no DA would have the brains let alone the skill or political will to prosecute. Also, seems like a freedom of speech issue. Otherwise it would be difficult for educators to discuss computer security. In fact, I'm pretty sure he could even do away with all of the "non-suggestion" text and still be fine. If I say, "I think you should hack website X, humanity will be bet…
Law student. These sort of situations have been considered by the people that write criminal laws. If you recommend a crime to someone and then they do it then you're a party to that offence ( http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/acts/C-46/page-6.html#h-5 [Canadian Criminal Code, but I assume US is quite similar on this]). There are a variety of ways to become a party to a crime, and then you're as guilty as the rest o…
Dear Everyone reading this, commit Fraud, Blackmail, Murder, Insider Trading, J-Walking and Possession. Now. Go. Do it!
Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet
#29Does anyone know exactly why it's illegal to take down Sality?
[deleted]
Re: Please do not take down the Sality botnet
#30I would love to hear a lawyers opinion on whether the OP has any legal case whatsoever if his "not suggestions" are ever used, his identity is identified, and someone decides they want to throw the book at him. Basically, if some DA decides this is modern day vigalanteism, a step removed - could the OP ever defend himself in court?
Not a lawyer. But this would never come to pass - no DA would have the brains let alone the skill or political will to prosecute. Also, seems like a freedom of speech issue. Otherwise it would be difficult for educators to discuss computer security. In fact, I'm pretty sure he could even do away with all of the "non-suggestion" text and still be fine. If I say, "I think you should hack website X, humanity will be bet…
Actual lawyer.
He's generally right, in the U.S. at least. Suggesting that someone commit an illegal act does not rise to the level of conspiracy. You have to actually do something meaningful to support the criminal effort to be charged with conspiracy.
In certain circumstances, incitement can be a crime, but the threshold for that crime is very high.