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New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

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Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#141

Post by bpodgursky »

viraptor wrote: post #47
blfr wrote: post #3

I have never worked in a job where you can give a reasonable pay band and routinely made 1.5-3x what other people with the same title did, before bonuses. This really only works for well-defined jobs in production, retail, and seems to bring little utility for the HN crowd.

That may be also a sign of poorly defined levels. If you're calling people the same i.e. set the same expectations, but pay them 3x different amount, something's weird with the org.

> poorly defined levels

Obsession over crisply-defined levels is a sign of an organization that is too far up its own a*** to actually get work done.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#142

Post by jabradoodle »

the_gipsy wrote: post #101
ta1243 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder if they'll also be agreeing to enforce the GDPR because New York companies sell services to Belgium citizens

GDPR is already enforced on American companies serving EU citizens. Only if the American company never intends to do business in the EU can they get away with breaching it.

Apart from just about every cookie banner in existence which is in breach of gdpr and as of yet basically no consequence.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#143

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

rat9988 wrote: post #65
version_five wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The big ranges is a logical consequence of such stupid rules. People are not commodities, and only in the most trivial of work can you a priori know what an individual brings to it. It's typical government thinking that makes no sense in the real world. So employers are stuck publishing an absurdly wide band that reflects the difference in what different people might bring to the position. This is effectively populis…

I have yet to see a position where the company has no idea about the budget allocated for it.

It's not uncommon to have budget be expressed in headcount rather than dollars, though. So you can hire one "senior software engineer" and your HR department has a model that tells them at what percentile of "senior software engineer" pay any given amount is - then you need to go into an exception process if you (as hiring manager) want to pay over 90th or 100th percentile or whatever.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#144

Post by matwood »

lesuorac wrote: post #99
matwood wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree, but it's not just about exploitation. Many people are weird about money and honesty around their skillset. I think it would be a good change, but I'm not sure the majority of people would like working like a pro sports team. In pro sports you know what everyone makes and relative skillsets are ranked and on display.

I mean it's a corporate decision to have all the work be hidden. There's few laws requiring that your company operate on a dark web but they all choose to. I think if a pro sports team could figure out how to make it so the opposing team couldn't tell which one of their players is which they would choose to. Good luck running a shift in the MLB if you don't know if the batter is swinging lefty or righty. Also I think…

I didn't say it led to perfect decisions. And while it's a corporate decision, my point was that not all employees are ready to have their company operate like a pro sports team. Many people aren't ready to have the conversation that Sue is better than they are and is paid more.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#145

Post by logicalmonster »

I have 2 main critiques of this legislation.

1) This seems like a fairly decent bit of legislation for some standardized professions, particularly those that are often paid hourly, work in person and cannot be outsourced out of state, and in many cases are the most economically vulnerable. I'm thinking that it would be pretty decent for dishwashers, cashiers, gas station attendants, etc to know if a job is offering say $15-18 per hour or $20-25 per hour. But this seems horrendous for salaried remote knowledge workers, particularly those that have the ability to negotiate a better deal. And additionally, there will be unintended consequences of this legislation, such as some employers not wanting to deal with New York employees.

2) If the goal of this legislation is to prevent exploitation, it seems that requiring a salary floor would be important, but requiring a salary ceiling would be a negative part of this legislation as it makes it a lot tougher to allow employees to have the room to negotiate.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#146

Post by matwood »

doublespanner wrote: post #124
pc86 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the largest range I've seen that wasn't very obviously from some resume harvester or z-tier recruiting firm was $30-40k between the lowest and highest, and it didn't seem to grow all that much as the upper band number increased (e.g. I distinctly remember one that said $180-200k). These $50-500k ranges simply don't happen in reality.

I've seen plenty that go $100-350k, especially when it looks like a company is hiring a few people... Useless to a candidate, but not dodgy or malicious.

Not useless at all. Every candidate will start with the expectation that it will be explained why they did not hit the maximum of the range. They also know the minimum.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#147

Post by robin_reala »

sdfghswe wrote: post #108
elromulous wrote: post #2

I've previously commented [0] on how broken this implementation is. It's frustrating politicians don't see how easy it is to circumvent what the law seeks to achieve. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=37440358

In that link > Hire a TC negotiation consultant with access to comp data. They can get you 20-40% more. What does TC mean here?

Total Compensation.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#148

Post by sokoloff »

jabradoodle wrote: post #142
the_gipsy wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

GDPR is already enforced on American companies serving EU citizens. Only if the American company never intends to do business in the EU can they get away with breaching it.

Apart from just about every cookie banner in existence which is in breach of gdpr and as of yet basically no consequence.

That's equally true of Belgian and New York companies, though.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#149

Post by donohoe »

logicalmonster wrote: post #145

I have 2 main critiques of this legislation. 1) This seems like a fairly decent bit of legislation for some standardized professions, particularly those that are often paid hourly, work in person and cannot be outsourced out of state, and in many cases are the most economically vulnerable. I'm thinking that it would be pretty decent for dishwashers, cashiers, gas station attendants, etc to know if a job is offering s…

I don't agree with your second point, but lets say you are right: the benefits of having a "salary ceiling" to me still outweigh any down-sides. I would argue that in many roles it gives a betters sense of what is on the table and allows folks to aim for higher than they might have.

No legislation is perfect, but this a vast improvement over the current situation.

Re: New York employers must include pay rates in job ads under new state law

#150

Post by test6554 »

logicalmonster wrote: post #145

I have 2 main critiques of this legislation. 1) This seems like a fairly decent bit of legislation for some standardized professions, particularly those that are often paid hourly, work in person and cannot be outsourced out of state, and in many cases are the most economically vulnerable. I'm thinking that it would be pretty decent for dishwashers, cashiers, gas station attendants, etc to know if a job is offering s…

The employer is much more likely to post a higher, unrealistic, salary ceiling that they have no intention of actually paying in order to attract more/better candidates.
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