Live data from Hacker News

Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

jenson.org

571–580 of 693 posts

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#571
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold down the space bar and you can move the cursor wherever you want, also on Android. I'm surprised more people don't know about this feature.

> I'm surprised more people don't know about this feature. I have an iPad without that feature, and it's maybe 5 years old? I think it's a newer feature. Also, in the past you could tap and hold on text and it would magnify the view around where you were tapping, but that feature was dropped at some point.

It's been on the iPhone since before it was even called "iOS" and it's there today. It never went away, so I wonder what you are talking about.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#572

This is absolutely a problem, but I'm not convinced the author has found a solution. I'd have to try it to know for sure, but from the description, it still sounds finicky. I believe touch screens are fundamentally a bad interface for productivity. Consider the range of actions provided by a mouse: You can hover without clicking, you can left click, or you can right click, all with nearly pixel-level precision. Add i…

well yeah, a touchscreen is never going to be a keyboard, but that doesn't mean things couldn't be better

> a touchscreen is never going to be a keyboard, but that doesn't mean things couldn't be better

... they growled, struggling to pierce the sow's earlobe.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#573
post #114
post #41

Biggest fail on Android IMHO: you cannot paste _within_ a word. copy and paste should be dedicated soft buttons, at least as long presses.

Yes you can. Tap to place the cursor, tap on its fat tail to get a context menu, select paste.

[flagged]

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#574

People produce less text with more errors in more time on mobile. I actively avoid having to type anything on mobile. If I have my laptop open, I'll use whatsapp or signal on that. I often wait replying on either of those until I get my laptop. Just way less frustrating to not have to correct >25% of my key presses. If I have to use the mobile keyboard, I'll often just send a message with typos, no capitals, and skip…

"People produce less text with more errors in more time on mobile."

I absolutely agree, typing or editing text on a smartphone is just horrible. There are many times I've started to write an email or post to say HN and I've been so frustrated I've aborted the process and restarted it on my laptop. It's down outright infuriating I have to do this.

[I just hope someone of influence at Google reads these posts and acts accordingly. If people at Google don't understand then it's just another instance—like Microsoft the king of offenders—of where Big Tech won't fix the damn obvious (I wish someone would write a book about it and fully expose the problem).]

1. You mention the keyboard matter. I went to the trouble of buying a small Bluetooth keyboard to use with the phone to help with the problem and it was hopeless, for starters, it had no separate keypad and I couldn't use any of the multiple alternative ways of keying ALT-# etc.—to key in, say, a Unicode character. None of the known 'fixes' actually worked for some reason.

Question (to anyone): we have any amount of hardware available but no decent small Bluetooth keyboards—why on earth not!? There's precious few Bluetooth keyboards anyway let alone decent small ones for portable use or that are convenient to use with smartphones. Manufacturers where the hell are you?

2. The finger problem and selecting text. First, there's the selecting text problem. Either one's fingers are too big or selecting text is difficult because the resolution and or sensitivity of the screen is wrong and it cannot be adjusted. Yes, some phones have a 'glove' mode but it's nigh on useless. Why don't phones have a sensitivity control that makes selecting text with a finger much, much easier?

3. Along the same lines, selecting or editing, say, a URL from a browser address line is painful. When the URL text exceeds the screen width then trying to get to the end of the text is a damn awkward. More often than not either one can't, or the highlight comes on and soon as one tries to get the cursor back the URL disappears altogether. Getting the cursor into the correct position between the text and the GUI element is usually difficult, why doesn't Google allow some blank spaces here so it's easy to edit? Surely, it could be made so that tapping in this vicinity and sliding right would place the cursor at the end of the text without losing it? Editing here really does need fine tuning.

4. UNDO, UBDO! I'm typing this into my browser's HN edit box! If I accidentally refresh the page before posting (which is damn easy to do) then I will have lost everything and have to start over again. Why on earth hasn't the 'undo' problem been solved with browsers, especially so on smartphones? It was solved over 30 years ago on wordprocessors so why not with browsers?

If I know I'm going to type some long text on my phone then I'll first do so in a text editor and save continually as I go then copy the finished text into the browser. I should NOT have to go to this amount of trouble, it's stupid and ridiculous that phone ergonomics aren't easier. (They say smartphone sales are slowing, well I'd suggest they'd quickly pick up again if Google fixed these important ergonomic issues.)

5. That raises the problem of where are 'undo' plugins for browsers? If browser manufacturers won't do 'undo' then why doesn't someone provide one (if ever a browser plugin was needed for a smartphone then this is it). BTW, there used to be an excellent plugin that did this for desktop Firefox called Lazarus but I haven't seen it for years. Lazarus not only did undos but also kept track of multiple edits—one could go back to any edit point even days or weks later and use or reuse it. Why are we now deprived of such a useful tool nowadays? There's no doubt computers are getting harder to use these days—not easier.

Right, I'm damn annoyed with the primitive smartphone environment I'm forced to use. It may have been OK 10 or more years ago but it's not OK nowadays. It's notable that with every new version of Android that Google adds junk I mostly don't need (and often useful features are removed that I do need and done on the pretext it's for security or such). It really is high time Google started to address these essential usability issues that everyone needs and wants.

This is such an issue one has to question what's going on at Google. Are people at Google incapable of entering more than one line of text into their phones at a single sitting? Can't they comprehend any concept longer than a single Twitter/X entry at a time? Given the neglect, one has to wonder.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#575

People produce less text with more errors in more time on mobile. I actively avoid having to type anything on mobile. If I have my laptop open, I'll use whatsapp or signal on that. I often wait replying on either of those until I get my laptop. Just way less frustrating to not have to correct >25% of my key presses. If I have to use the mobile keyboard, I'll often just send a message with typos, no capitals, and skip…

Oh man, I long for the days of phones with T9 input and hardware keys you could physically feel. It was so easy to walk down the street and tap out a text message with results much more predictable than "predictive" text, only occasionally having to glance down at the phone to check what you wrote. You could do it all with one hand, it was very unlikely you would drop the phone in the process and even if you did, it…

See this, it has the T9 input method too: https://github.com/dessalines/thumb-key

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swipe is terrible and i dont know how people even use it

Swipe is good on keyboards other than the stock iOS keyboard. That one is worse than every other option imaginable and it sucks to see because iOS used to have the best mobile keyboard bar none back before they tried to get smart with it.

> ” other than the stock iOS keyboard ”

Did you check it lately? It’s really good now since iOS 17… but indeed it was bad before.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#577

This is absolutely a problem, but I'm not convinced the author has found a solution. I'd have to try it to know for sure, but from the description, it still sounds finicky. I believe touch screens are fundamentally a bad interface for productivity. Consider the range of actions provided by a mouse: You can hover without clicking, you can left click, or you can right click, all with nearly pixel-level precision. Add i…

Why not something akin to "fixed-offset cursor"? Actual cursor/pointer is always a centimeter above the finger position (thus always visible [bottom of the screen to be handled as a special case]), and finger movements manipulate position, while hold duration accesses alternate modes. For a somewhat similar implementation (touchscreen is essentially handled as touchpad) look at how Teamviewer handles remote sessions…

Try out the app Quick Cursor[1] it does a lot of what you describe. Pretty intuitive too, you build muscle memory for it quickly. 1: https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.quickcurso...

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) impressive, 2) try without looking

Just tried and got 72wpm with 97% accuracy without looking… though honestly I think not looking is a bit pointless, since the keyboard is so close to the text anyway. It’s not nearly as jarring as looking at your keyboard when typing on a desktop.

fwiw: 46wpm 80% droid, 31wpm 80% iphone S, 120wpm 98% laptop

47wpm 86% droid with glide disabled (but I'm not dissing glide, it just gets in the way in pure-tap situations)

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hold down the space bar and you can move the cursor wherever you want, also on Android. I'm surprised more people don't know about this feature.

I know about this in Swiftkey, but since I'm using more than one language, this action is used to change languages instead. It's unfortunate because moving the cursor is very useful.

Swipe changes the language but a long press activates the cursor in Android

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#580
I've always dreamed of having Maya-like menus (1) on mobile. The edit menu they demonstrate in the article (2) reminds me of them.

On the topic of mobile text editing: I use an iPhone SE (2nd gen), which has a 4.7" screen. The other day, I needed to translate some text. In iOS's Notes, I couldn't type and see my source at the same time. So I did what any iOS user would do and opened vim (3), made a v-split for the source, then wrote and edited my translation.

Vim-users, do you also find vim good on a small touchscreen?

1: https://youtu.be/j15MLgnIKfI?t=66

2: https://youtu.be/_9YPm0EghvU?t=224

3: in a-shell.

Post reply on HN