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25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

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Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#41

Post by hkt »

djtango wrote: post #25
switch007 wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do get it. While I haven’t commuted, I’ve travelled many, many times around London including rush hour. Have smelled many armpits on the tube and even worn earplugs on the central line. (I have commuted in another European city however) But London is a victim of its own success. It will always be hot busy and crowded. This is just like almost every other major city in the world - hot, crowded public transport at ru…

Fair enough I don't really disagree with your overall point. Although there's taking the tube and then there's the Northern line where I've heard people going in the opposite direction to get upstream of the queues to get on... Hopefully remote working will take some of the pressure off of the city because it really does feel overcrowded. Although personally I probably would still stay near London given it's both whe…

Birmingham is also magnificent for (south) Asian food. Glasgow too!

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#42

Post by larschdk »

switch007 wrote: post #6

It’s hard not to think Londoners are entitled and ungrateful. No other part of the country has ever had so much spent on mass transit nor will it ever. They have the finest public transport in the entire UK, and always will. I bet you can’t regularly do 1-40 mile journeys at the same speed and cost regularly anywhere else in the UK. The media recently tried to make out the Elizabeth line was one of the worst services…

I don't think it's being ungrateful, or at least not something unique to Londoners. People think and act relatively. We will always complain about the biggest issue we face, not matter how trivial it is compared others. Or you could say, we always try to improve no matter how good things are. We shouldn't stop fixing things or improving just because someone has it worse.

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#43

Post by hkt »

kergonath wrote: post #24
switch007 wrote: post #6

It’s hard not to think Londoners are entitled and ungrateful. No other part of the country has ever had so much spent on mass transit nor will it ever. They have the finest public transport in the entire UK, and always will. I bet you can’t regularly do 1-40 mile journeys at the same speed and cost regularly anywhere else in the UK. The media recently tried to make out the Elizabeth line was one of the worst services…

> No other part of the country has ever had so much spent on mass transit nor will it ever. This entirely true and very unfortunate. It is great to see Manchester making improvements on that front, for example, and I hope many cities will follow as the current model is absurd. Franchising like in London is not ideal but a marked improvement. That said, there aren’t many places in the UK where a single train line can…

> Up to a point, improving transport around London is the best bang for your quid.

I'm trying to limit snark in my responses to this article, but wow. It turns out if you invest in something continually at the expense of everywhere else it becomes the lynchpin of the system. Good grief.

The major reason people in the north hate hearing about investment in the south is because politically it is very clearly a zero sum game. If the south gets investment, the north doesn't.

For additional perspective, look at the Crossrail projects: hugely expensive with benefits only felt in one part of the country. (No, Londoners paying tax doesn't count)

For the cost of crossrail, or HS2, every city in the UK outside of London could have comprehensive tram networks and massive active travel infrastructure. What stings the most is that if London didn't exist, became independent, or fell into the sea, everyone else would likely benefit very rapidly.

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#44

Post by pif »

barrkel wrote: post #10

Travelling by scooter in London, about half the time is spent waiting for traffic lights. I took videos of my commute for about a year, in case of interesting events. Traffic isn't a big deal on a scooter but traffic lights add up. Still a lot faster than the tube unless you have a direct connection and are close to a station for both ends.

> about half the time is spent waiting for traffic lights.

I wonder if it is the same problem as in Geneva: in an effort to moderate congestion, they programmed the lights to slow the traffic towards the centre. In other words, they moved the problem a couple kilometres and they called it a day.

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#45

Post by throwthrow5643 »

virtualritz wrote: post #23
switch007 wrote: post #6

It’s hard not to think Londoners are entitled and ungrateful. No other part of the country has ever had so much spent on mass transit nor will it ever. They have the finest public transport in the entire UK, and always will. I bet you can’t regularly do 1-40 mile journeys at the same speed and cost regularly anywhere else in the UK. The media recently tried to make out the Elizabeth line was one of the worst services…

> They have the finest public transport in the entire UK, [...] It's all relative. If you compared this with Japan's public transport system, 'fine' would not be a word you'd use to describe the one in London.

Did you want to trade the British work environment and culture for its Japanese counterpart too?

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#46

Post by throwthrow5643 »

New to London. London transport is good when it works. One thing I don't get, compared to my home country, is why when the train employees strike, they cancel services? Back home they just refuse to collect fares, and open the turnstyles. That way the unions don't offside the public.

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#47

Post by hkt »

switch007 wrote: post #29
TheChaplain wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, London have over 8m people compared to second on the list, Birminghamn with slightly over 2m. It's pretty obvious you need to spend a ton on public commuting options to avoid a chaotic hell during morning/evening rush (it's already chaos, but it could be much worse).

That’s an argument for spending elsewhere, not London. London is already busy and crowded. I’m pretty tired of this belief that it wasn’t investment that made London the economic giant it is - it infects even the DfT and treasury. Invest properly in other cities and they will be equally prosperous.

It didn't infect the treasury, it originated there.

The treasury is a deeply broken institution, and it has always been resistant to losing "turf". In the 1960s Harold Wilson's administration tried to split its functions: the new Department for Economic Affairs would take the long view, and the treasury's job was to take the short view and deal with the markets. From what I recall reading (source needed, it was a long time ago and I forget the book) it was not just ministerial infighting that caused the problem: civil servants in the treasury didn't want to lose out to the DEA either.

It is always helpful to recall that the four great offices of state are, especially at the upper echelons, ancient institutions whose cultures are unlike anything most of us have experienced.

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#48

Post by HPsquared »

williamvds wrote: post #35
switch007 wrote: post #6

It’s hard not to think Londoners are entitled and ungrateful. No other part of the country has ever had so much spent on mass transit nor will it ever. They have the finest public transport in the entire UK, and always will. I bet you can’t regularly do 1-40 mile journeys at the same speed and cost regularly anywhere else in the UK. The media recently tried to make out the Elizabeth line was one of the worst services…

I'm aware of just how under invested the rest of UK infrastructure is outside of London, but that doesn't make complaints about its services invalid. With the billions spent on the purple pine you'd reasonable expect a decent quality of service that doesn't involve so many cancellations, delays, and days of complete deadlock. Bet if you look at to comparable European countries this reliability would be a joke to them…

My experience with German trains has been that they're often delayed and canceled. Lovely smooth tracks though.

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#49

Post by benj111 »

switch007 wrote: post #34
benj111 wrote: post #14

Is this a continuation of 'first world problems'? 'London problems' Oh no, my train waits it the station for nearly a full minute. The fact that there actually is a train, the train isn't a converted bus that was supposed to be a temporary measure 30 years ago, that's it's deemed viable to actually make a 13 minute train journey, the fact that presumably the train isn't 13 minutes late and in fact turned up, and the…

I bet people downvoting don’t even know about Pacers or how bad they were lol. Most Londoners are completely ignorant of the pain of public transport up North (hell, even outside of London)

There's a few comments about packed underground trains aswell, as if the once per hour train, ie the only one commuters can get isn't going to be packed, and it takes longer than a minute for everyone to get off and on, and it takes a lot longer than 13 minutes for the entire journey, and these are diesels so the acceleration is slow, and noisy. And this all assumes it isn't cancelled, or so delayed it makes you late for work.

Getting to work an hour and 15 minutes early most mornings because you can't rely on the later train not to be 15 minutes late.

Re: 25% of the 13 minute journey from Whitechapel to Paddington is spent not moving

#50

Post by HPsquared »

throwthrow5643 wrote: post #45
virtualritz wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They have the finest public transport in the entire UK, [...] It's all relative. If you compared this with Japan's public transport system, 'fine' would not be a word you'd use to describe the one in London.

Did you want to trade the British work environment and culture for its Japanese counterpart too?

Maybe? Japanese companies have a lot more loyalty to their employees.
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