$700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them • Hacker News Board

Re: $700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them

#91

Post by tomohelix » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 3:49 AM UTC

mixmastamyk wrote: post #40

tomohelix wrote: post #22

Looking through this thread, it is surprising that there are actually people who consider this "acceptable". Like it is not something out of a dystopian hellscape. Amazing how much a person can be conditioned into accepting a terrible situation. And no, there are ways to fix this, there is just no will to do so, partly because of the people who see nothing wrong with it.

Scrappy people solving problems is the only way problems are gonna get solved. Also living in a dorm is not the hardship you seem to think it is. It’s better accommodations than 90% of people in history have ever lived. Watch Les Miserables for a reality check. Better to direct anger at the landed gentry who made this possible.

The apathy is what I am angry about. The sentiment that "this is fine" is what allowed this to happen. Laws and regulations need to be adjusted to enable better housing for more people. But they get blocked because those who hold the means don't see any problem with people below them living in squalid conditions like this.

Make no mistake, I see this as a terrible living situation. Just because some war time refugees 100 years ago lived worse doesn't mean one of the richest cities in the world should have the same. It is a terrible and dishonest comparison.

Re: $700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them

#92

Post by jrockway » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:06 AM UTC

ShamelessC wrote: post #6

gnicholas wrote: post #2

It sounds like the $700 covers more than the pod itself — renters also get access to a coworking space (and obviously, bathrooms and common areas. What is the going rate for coworking space in SF? To me (or rather, single me from many years ago), the key remaining question is what the bathroom situation is like. If you have to wait in line for bathrooms/showers with dozens of other residents, I'd pass. But if they ha…

> access to a coworking space (and obviously, bathrooms) Neither of those things are obvious. 700$/month is more than enough for an apartment with 1.5 bedrooms where I live. This seems nightmarish.

To some extent, it's just numbers. People who work in tech in San Francisco are compensated well enough that living there is not a burden; the numbers are big for both housing costs and salary. Personally, I think the high cost of living areas work out in your favor. If the prevailing rent and food cost is $1/month, then it's going to be hard to ever find a salary that can pay for an iPhone. If prevailing rent and food costs are $5000 a month, whatever % they give you over the bare minimum will cover costs that are the same everywhere more easily. (As a corollary, keep in mind that rules like "only spend 25% of your take-home pay on housing" are not written with software engineers in high cost of living areas in mind. I pay 43% of my take-home pay on housing and the other 57% is a lot of money.)

The biggest cost of living issue that software engineers face there is 1) not working for FAANG but competing for housing with people that do (double if you have kids; remember that both parents can have FAANG salaries, and they will spend them both to get their kids into a good school) and 2) trying to save 20% for a down payment on a house while also paying rent. #1 is kind of a San Francisco thing; everyone wants to live in downtown Mountain View so they can bike 5 minutes to work, and Google pays better than the other companies nearby, so... if you don't work there you probably won't live there. Apartments in Mountain View are more expensive than Manhattan. My take is that the Bay Area really suffers from existing to serve one major industry; everyone else has the same job as you, and gets paid the same for it. There's also some personal preference involved; "I won't do algorithm interviews", "I want a 4 day workweek", "I want to work remotely" are all going to reduce your earning potential. Whether the upsides are worth it is up to you to decide, but you will be bidding against people that work in person 5 days a week that mastered the software engineering interview. As for #2, it takes time. Save as much as you can and you'll get there soon enough.

Re: $700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them

#93

Post by gnicholas » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:13 AM UTC

johnsanders wrote: post #62

alexpotato wrote: post #11

My favorite story, possibly not true, about alternative sleeping quarters is from the days of sailing: Sailors who were too drunk to make it back to their ships after a long evening at the tavern would to a room in the back of the tavern, In that room would be two ropes stretched from wall to wall: 1. about waist height 2. just below armpit height. The top rope was slightly offset, horizontally, from the bottom rope.…

Pretty sure this was a thing in Victorian England. It's in Jack the Ripper stories and possibly where the word "hangover" came from I think.

Possibly apocryphal: https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/hangover-drunken-sailors-r...

Re: $700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them

#94

Post by ribosometronome » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:14 AM UTC

trimethylpurine wrote: post #83

ribosometronome wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Crustaceans are very distantly related to "bugs," How do you figure? What makes them not a bug? Generally the distinction I see is that people consider pretty much all arthopods bugs unless they're big and live in the sea and cognitive dissonance doesn't want them to think about that they like eating bugs. Sure, they're not /insects/ but neither are spiders or centipedes. Heck, I think most people consider "Pill Bug…

Scientifically, "bugs" refers to hemiptera, not crustaceans. As for flavor, second hand account indicates that bugs taste like chicken, while first hand account indicates lobster doesn't taste like chicken, at least not to me.

>Scientifically, "bugs" refers to hemiptera

Contextually, we're downstream in a conversation caused by someone saying they will not eat bugs. If you had to guess, do you think someone yelling they won't eat bugs would eat fried crickets? Or popcorn pill bugs? Shrimp fried bees? Chocolate cockroach crunch cereal? None of those are hemipterans. I imagine those are all pretty well covered by the "I will not eat bugs!" statement.

Re: $700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them

#95

Post by raminf » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:14 AM UTC

In dotcom days, I used to work in SF with a developer from Australia. He liked to stay in youth hostels in SoMa. They were cheap and offered easy commute to downtown. He got to hang out and socialize with traveling expats and save a ton of money.

It was inconvenient by conventional standards (had to vacate and rotate rooms every few days) but he enjoyed the lifestyle. In the winter time, he went up to Tahoe and became a ski instructor while still freelancing tech projects.

With all the extra money he sent home, he ended up buying a house there while in his 20s. I lost touch but heard through mutual friends he was doing well.

You can sniff at pod housing, but when you're young, footloose, and chasing a dream, it's a pretty good deal.

Re: $700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them

#96

Post by skybrian » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:15 AM UTC

tomohelix wrote: post #89

skybrian wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As temporary housing, it beats a tent. Maybe even a van. Are you against camping?

Why do you think it is temporary? You don't seem to understand how much is $700 to a minimum wage worker. Even in SF, that is nearly 1/3 of their income. If we take the common requirement of 3x the rent then this is basically the most a minimum wage worker can afford. Sometimes, people can't do any better than that. Are you saying that even if a person work full time, they don't deserve a better living condition than…

I think it's temporary because in the article, he is quoted as saying he's "living in a $700/mo pod at Mint Plaza for the next 30 days." That seems pretty temporary to me?

As to what he deserves, I think he deserves to decide for himself without other people second-guessing it, and also to be able to change his mind and do something else if it gets old.

It seems like you're going off-topic, since the article isn't about minimum wage workers in general. But to address that, yes, rents are very high in San Francisco and it's no place to try to live solely on a minimum wage.

Re: $700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them

#97

Post by ptman » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:49 AM UTC

strangesmells02 wrote: post #26

DoreenMichele wrote: post #7

Not ideal, but a step in the right direction. We used to have SROs -- Single Room Occupancy -- units for singles, childless couples, retirees. We've torn down about a million of them since WWII. We need to update the concept and bring it back in some fashion. If your life is online, you don't need that much space. You don't need rows of bookshelves when you can download kindle books. Founders of online businesses are…

Also parking for vans. A van is an awesome way to live if you can get parking. If you make the rent like 1000 a month for the space, it will keep the riff raff out. Put up a workspace and a some showers. If something like that happened it would start a movement.

Van parking is a flat lot. This can be built in multiple floors. Suburbs are a problem, more density is a solution

Re: $700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them

#98

Post by tomohelix » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:50 AM UTC

skybrian wrote: post #96

tomohelix wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think it is temporary? You don't seem to understand how much is $700 to a minimum wage worker. Even in SF, that is nearly 1/3 of their income. If we take the common requirement of 3x the rent then this is basically the most a minimum wage worker can afford. Sometimes, people can't do any better than that. Are you saying that even if a person work full time, they don't deserve a better living condition than…

I think it's temporary because in the article, he is quoted as saying he's "living in a $700/mo pod at Mint Plaza for the next 30 days." That seems pretty temporary to me? As to what he deserves, I think he deserves to decide for himself without other people second-guessing it, and also to be able to change his mind and do something else if it gets old. It seems like you're going off-topic, since the article isn't ab…

The article to me is about the cost of a box to sleep in SF. The person they interviewed was just one of the renters. There are all sorts of people living in that place. Most I would wager are the people who cannot afford anything better.

Why do you think minimum wage workers should not be allowed to live in SF? If everyone is writing code, who would make the food? Who would deliver the packages? Who would clean the workspace in your office? They don't deserve a place to live near you even though they are providing you with all kind of services? Genuinely asking here because I can't fathom what you were saying when you said SF is not for minimum wage workers.

Re: $700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them

#99

Post by tivert » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 4:57 AM UTC

defrost wrote: post #37

programmarchy wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of the “Architect from Pluto” scene in Jodorowsky’s Holy Mountain. The architect reveals his new efficient apartment design: a matrix of coffins. He received a thunderous applause from his investors. [1] “A man doesn’t need a home. All he needs is a shelter. If we can sell him on the idea of a shelter, we’ll make millions.” [1] https://youtu.be/FASvJF21yXU?feature=shared&t=70 (contains nudity)

Or more closely the sleeping pod scenes in Tokyo in Wim Wenders Until the End of the World (1991) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfFWBWKwQT8 Just the trailer - it's a 5 hour film and hard to find the specific scene on youtube

> Or more closely the sleeping pod scenes in Tokyo in Wim Wenders Until the End of the World (1991)

Can you give a more detailed description? Was just a run-of-the-mill Japanese capsule hotel (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capsule_hotel)? Those were already common in 1991 (https://www.flickr.com/photos/glenhsparky/4820691940), and would have been certainly exotically sci-fi to an early-90s American audience.

> Just the trailer - it's a 5 hour film and hard to find the specific scene on youtube

Wow. some time ago that film connected with me for some reason (why, I have no recollection), so I have a VHS copy (because it was unavailable in any other format). That cut is much shorter.

Re: $700 a Month for a Bed-Sized “Pod” in Downtown SF? Techies Are Renting Them

#100

Post by skybrian » Mon, Sep 25, 2023, 5:07 AM UTC

tomohelix wrote: post #98

skybrian wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's temporary because in the article, he is quoted as saying he's "living in a $700/mo pod at Mint Plaza for the next 30 days." That seems pretty temporary to me? As to what he deserves, I think he deserves to decide for himself without other people second-guessing it, and also to be able to change his mind and do something else if it gets old. It seems like you're going off-topic, since the article isn't ab…

The article to me is about the cost of a box to sleep in SF. The person they interviewed was just one of the renters. There are all sorts of people living in that place. Most I would wager are the people who cannot afford anything better. Why do you think minimum wage workers should not be allowed to live in SF? If everyone is writing code, who would make the food? Who would deliver the packages? Who would clean the…

The article is about one renter in one building that offers some rather unusual accommodations that aren't typical for SF. It's not about SF housing issues in general. That's what you decided to talk about.