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LARPing and Violent Extremism

leb.fbi.gov

141–150 of 230 posts

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#141
Honestly, based on my life experience, I disagree with quite some criteria that the FBI uses here to distinguish between LARP and Violent Extremism:

Audience: "Spectators accepted or desired" vs "Secrecy demanded"

Quite some LARP people who want to avoid spectators, since quite some conservative or religious people tend to associate some fantasy stuff to be "satanistic" or "sacrilegious". Thus, to avoid really annoying discussions, they prefer no spectators.

Components: "Features of organized gaming (e.g., rules, character sheets, scenario scripts, in- and out-of-character designations)" vs "Absence of documented rules, character sheets, scenario scripts, in- and out-of-character designations; all “characters” are frontline fighters or operational support personnel"

There exist LARP system where there exist many rules, but also those where such things are handled in a more "loose"/"spontanous"/"improvisatory" way.

Relationship with law enforcement: "No concern with law enforcement in out-of-character life" vs "Demonstrated concern with law enforcement and prosecutions of similar criminal behavior"

Of course, those who distrust the law enforcement (often for good reasons) are suspicious to be extremists - that is what the FBI claims ;-) . Seriously: there likely exist LARP players with about any possible stance concerning law enforcement.

Equipment: "realistic prop weapons often discouraged in the rules"

It depends on the LARP system whether these are discouraged or encouraged.

Personal grievance: "No personal grievance toward out-group(s) outside the voluntary, fantasy world" vs "Personal grievance toward out-group(s) believed to pose an imminent and existential threat, requiring violent action" and Mood: "Euthymic and joyful; anticipatory fantasy to enjoy the event" vs "Dysphoric and angry; anticipatory fantasy to harm or kill the target(s)"

This depends a lot on the setting of the LARP: of course some cyberpunk, horror or dark-fantasy themed LARP will be much more dark than, say, some high fantasy or utopic science-fiction setting.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#142
post #88
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He wasn't practicing building pipe bombs in public. By the rubric this document suggests, McVeigh would have satisfied 0 / 10 LARPing signals in Table 1.

Your scenario was: > Imagine an FBI agent looking at evidence of Timothy McVeigh at a gun show in 1994. He's selling a flare gun he claims can 'shoot down an ATF helicopter' and ATF hats with bullet holes in them. Not "Imagine an FBI agent looking at Timothy McVeigh building pipe bombs in private". I don't see how this document would have helped stop McVeigh.

Clueless FBI agent today is looking at a stack of next-McVeigh-claiming-LARP + 5 LARP/military RP groups.

Maybe this doc helps them sort the wheat from the chaff, because the agent doesn't actually know anything about LARP groups.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But LARPing shouldn't be an excuse for people who want to don real tactical gear and weapons and plan mayhem. Just saw a video talking a bit facetiously about this. The question is, "What's the difference between Paintball and LARPing?" Dressing up and using made-up names and speaking specialized terminology and engaging in make-believe combat... They decided there is no difference. (This could just as easily be ai…

I'd say paintball is like fencing. The actions are real, but the consequences are minimized by the equipment. I don't know much about LARPing but I have the impression that the actions there aren't real, just people saying things like "I strike at thee", "I parry and riposte" while pantomiming in slow motion. Wouldn't it be easy to tell a fencing duel from a LARP swordfight?

Serious LARP'rs make their own swords and chainmail .. the difference between a fencing duel and a LARP swordfight is the shear size of the blades and the weight of the chainmail. *

eg: https://greycompany.com.au/

Now billed as "Historical Re-enactment focusing on the Dark Ages and Medieval times" and has been swinging swords and building trebuchets since ~ 1980(ish) at least.

* Varies, of course, by LARP groups

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with the top post that the title confused me. But reading the article I came away with a very different take than you. This person is trying to define the difference between LARPing and being terrorist. That may be obvious to someone who knows LARPers, but not everyone does. I really don't think that the police are going to be a problem for people in fantasy gear, cosplaying, or re-enacting a historical battl…

The article acknowledges the possibility of people LARPing in a more contemporary context. I find this plausible, too: I can imagine groups of people getting together recreationally and fantasizing about how they're going to overthrow the fascist mayor, or kill all the Jews, or whatever else. With their real guns and tactical gear, because those look cool. With a badass logo, maybe with some skulls in it. But with no…

Up until the point when they do something that crosses a line.

eg: see youtube's Flattened Earth - The Glorious LARP (2021)

Conspiracy Theory Historic Reenactment Metal Band Flattened Earth is Satire

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#145
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> users pretend to have fantasies about taking officer's service weapon. Why is this a trend...

Funnier is how many of these people don't seem to understand how retention holsters work.

Right. You’re not just yanking a pistol out of a level 2/3 without taking the cop with you.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#146
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been interested in planning a bank heist (but obviously not following through). It's sort of the same motivation for lockpicking, LARPing, or even homesteading- an exploration of the criminal world, the fantasy of being a Ocean's 11/Clooney type, the (admittedly, likely false) comfort of being able to make a difference if fascists/Russia/China invaded and took over. I have never given this much thought, as I'v…

I guess your best bet would be to have someone design a fictional bank to rob.

Yeah, if people who want to LARP as bank robbers could be paired with people who want to LARP as bankers, tellers, and cops, that could be an answer to the incipient commercial real-estate crisis. Just a matter of getting the right people in the same room together.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blackmail, lying, misinformation, manipulation, and gaslighting: the tools of an undercover FBI agent.

Such things have always been a part of law enforcement repertoire. When the FBI was engaging in such "entrapment" against Muslim Americans after 9/11, you would never hear the right-wing complaining, but now of course that their own are turning out to be the perps and the targets, suddenly they want to act like they are against law enforcement over-reach and malfeasance. Except of course when the victim is Black, and…

Wait, this is a right vs left wing issue in USA? Explains the very low quality and very tribal discussions here. I thought this was about privacy and government overreach and in those threads the discussions are much better, but apparently all of that goes out the window when you add tribal conflicts...

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#148

I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...?? But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing: > For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Govern…

To add a counterpoint, that specific example is really a poor choice to get the point across. It’s been established ( https://www.insider.com/kidnapping-conspiracy-whitmer-fbi-in... ) that the Whitmer plot was run by the FBI itself, in a way having agents LARPing as terrorists. Also, I would hope the real LARPing community can feel safe enough to share tips on what to do if they run into police while running around t…

^ this reads like a terrorist supporter still trying to justify their support of terrorism.

They’ve already been convicted, they’re in jail and will be for a few more years.

You lost, get over it.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing has been "established" except that a number of those involved got convicted. It's silly to think the FBI can force people to commit crimes they had no desire to commit.

Blackmail, lying, misinformation, manipulation, and gaslighting: the tools of an undercover FBI agent.

When conservatives are used to feeling privileged, equality feels like oppression.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such things have always been a part of law enforcement repertoire. When the FBI was engaging in such "entrapment" against Muslim Americans after 9/11, you would never hear the right-wing complaining, but now of course that their own are turning out to be the perps and the targets, suddenly they want to act like they are against law enforcement over-reach and malfeasance. Except of course when the victim is Black, and…

Wait, this is a right vs left wing issue in USA? Explains the very low quality and very tribal discussions here. I thought this was about privacy and government overreach and in those threads the discussions are much better, but apparently all of that goes out the window when you add tribal conflicts...

Republicans endorse political violence when it’s targeted against their political opponents - the plot to kidnap and execute the Michigan governor was “just a joke” (the perpetrators have been convicted and are currently incarcerated).
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