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LARPing and Violent Extremism

leb.fbi.gov

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Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#31

Post by xwdv »

Tao3300 wrote: post #20
kr0bat wrote: post #10

They used the term LARP a lot more literally than I expected. Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace. Early attempts at such a strategy have been made by a defendant acting alone or in loose cooperation with members of a fantasy group who knew each other only in the virtual world, claiming “artistic expression” to excuse threatening…

> users pretend to have fantasies about taking officer's service weapon. Why is this a trend...

To create a paranoia amongst police officers that disproportionately affects minorities.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#32

Post by 082349872349872 »

kr0bat wrote: post #10

They used the term LARP a lot more literally than I expected. Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace. Early attempts at such a strategy have been made by a defendant acting alone or in loose cooperation with members of a fantasy group who knew each other only in the virtual world, claiming “artistic expression” to excuse threatening…

cf mens rea; in the financial context Matt Levine's "Money Stuff" column often points out that if people are doing something dodgy the worst thing (for any future defence) they can do is try to weasel-word it.

Edit: eg https://kotaku.com/minecraft-death-threat-4chan-pol-shooter-...

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#33

Post by ethbr1 »

YeBanKo wrote: post #25

It is very scary to read such an "opinion" pieces on fbi.gov domain. First, they make it possible to connect any organized activity to "violent extremism". And then this: > Meetings may entail impassioned rhetoric and rehearsal of tactical operations for the ultimate future apocalypse when citizens will overtake the government or institute their own community policing. This quote is fucking insane, imo. "citizens wil…

The article also contains

>> [recommendations to probe and challenge] motives during an interview (e.g., “If you were just LARPing, why did you need live explosives?”)

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#34

Post by _jal »

Jensson wrote: post #6

> The foremost distinction between LARPers and violent extremists is that genuine role players will not care whether others are watching. They may even embrace third-party observation, such as nonplayer characters or a general audience. After all, LARP is a performance. > Conversely, violent extremists or terrorists want secrecy. This desire may contribute to the sense of clandestine excitement that surrounds them an…

> Why is the FBI writing stuff like this and publishing it?

Violent extremists use a variety of dodges to attempt to avoid accountability for their behavior. You've probably seen examples - it is very common to shout "false flag", claiming rivals impersonated them, for instance[1].

This is just another in a long line of those sorts of things.

The FBI's remit includes investigating and arresting violent extremists. As such, they collect and disseminate information that assists with that goal.

[1] Some of the same people also actually engage in "false flag" operations of their own - for instance, the "Boogaloo Boys" were responsible for violence and arson in Minnesota and murder in California during the George Floyd riots, which was initially misattributed to BLM-affiliated folks.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/23/texas-boogaloo...

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#35

Post by dnd_was_evil »

woodruffw wrote: post #29
dnd_was_evil wrote: post #23

Remember when DnD was the cover for a nation wide cult that murdered children by the dozen? Congratulations you're as out of touch as our parents were. >Individuals can engage in such activity informally or as part of an organized group. Presumably, the earliest formal LARP group was Dagorhir Battle Games, founded in the United States in 1977. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1913_Gettysburg_reunion Now if only these…

I think it's worth reading the linked page more closely: the distinction scheme it describes appears to be designed to handle the exact problem you've identified. (That's not to say that it's good, or that the FBI will apply it effectively or correctly, only that it isn't as simple as "the FBI believes in the DnD cult conspiracy.")

[flagged]

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#36

Post by YeBanKo »

jeffbee wrote: post #21
Jensson wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And those will now think that LARPers who want privacy are terrorists? I don't see how this is a good way to separate LARPing from terrorism. It is scary to think that law enforcement thinks that people who want privacy are terrorists.

This article is about how to test the genuineness of claims of LARPing by people suspected of attempting to overthrow governments. If you don't have the precondition of armed bandits circling your seat of government, then the article is of no relevance.

The article is of relevance to anyone who is affected by criminal justice system. This is literally an article on how the law should be interpreted by federal law enforcement.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#37

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

Tao3300 wrote: post #20
kr0bat wrote: post #10

They used the term LARP a lot more literally than I expected. Although the history of LARP as a legal defense is narrow, the authors share the concern that it may soon become commonplace. Early attempts at such a strategy have been made by a defendant acting alone or in loose cooperation with members of a fantasy group who knew each other only in the virtual world, claiming “artistic expression” to excuse threatening…

> users pretend to have fantasies about taking officer's service weapon. Why is this a trend...

Because social media has taught people - especially young people - that views/clicks/likes/etc are equivalent to popularity and acceptance, so they need to do outrageous things to get the views.

Remember Tide pods? Same thing.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#38

Post by flangola7 »

082349872349872 wrote: post #3

Cosplaytriots attempting to use LARPing as an excuse is reminiscent of: > "Never believe that [they] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. ... They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persua…

Once you realize many individuals see written language not as a means to share ideas and have mutual constructive discussion, but as just another weapon to achieve their ends, a lot of human interactions (especially online) make a lot more sense. It's very dangerous since many of us (myself included) instinctively assume good faith and approach conflicts as possible misunderstandings or opportunities for constructive common ground finding; but the other person (regardless of how they present themselves) isn't interested in any of that at all. They would just as quickly hit you over the head with a club.

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#39

Post by fortran77 »

Tao3300 wrote: post #15
082349872349872 wrote: post #3

Cosplaytriots attempting to use LARPing as an excuse is reminiscent of: > "Never believe that [they] are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. ... They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persua…

Sartre on Anti-Semites

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/7870768-never-believe-that-...

Re: LARPing and Violent Extremism

#40

Post by pard68 »

crazygringo wrote: post #24

I was definitely confused by this article at first, thinking it was some silly guide for law enforcement which can't tell the difference between criminals and LARPers...?? But no -- it's actually about terrorists and criminals trying to claim in court that their criminal planning wasn't that at all, but just LARPing: > For example, after Kaleb Franks was arrested in October 2020 for plotting to abduct Michigan Govern…

Not perhaps always, but I've seen the term "LARPing" used in a more tongue-in-cheek and disparaging way. Might be part of it some times.

"Did you hear what Jim has planned?"

-"Oh he's just LARPing"

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