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Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

jenson.org

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Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#291

Post by ako »

ghaff wrote: post #232
ako wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think screen size is the limiting factor when editing, but the lack of a convenient keyboard. I’ve edited quite large texts with a Bluetooth keyboard connected to my phone. Currently have a Nuphy air 75 and keychron k15 pro, small sized, mechanical, ergonomic Bluetooth keyboards, both make editing pretty acceptable.

To be honest, I haven’t even been able to make a tablet really work for me as a serious laptop replacement for any halfway serious office productivity work. Except for a very short trip I bring a laptop because otherwise I’ll run into something I have trouble doing that I need to do.

True, but i feel the same way about laptops. For true productivity i need at least one big display, so will usually dock it with an external display, keyboard and mouse. Funny thing is that the modern iPads connected to an external display gives more or less the same experience as a laptop (as long as you're not programming...)

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#292

Post by azeirah »

For what it's worth, I do feel like text editing is a big problem on Mobile. This is why I got myself a samsung note-line phone, the stylus greatly improves the text editing experience by basically being about as precise as a cursor and having a second button.

I still wish text editing was better, I like taking notes on things usually on Obsidian and the entire mobile text writing and more importantly editing is just not too great, but as the demo shows it can be improved a lot... :/

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#293

Post by dingnuts »

rpcope1 wrote: post #287
plaidfuji wrote: post #57

1000% agree with this post, wow. I can’t believe this is controversial.. it’s a disaster. I dread opening the mobile version of google docs, sheets, or even Notes for anything more than a grocery list. The problem is the target audience for this is business customers, and particularly those in management, so it’s a small market. ICs aren’t up and down as much between meetings and can largely stick to their desktop se…

This is honestly why I carry my GPD MicroPC with me now, as its almost as portable as the phone, and unfathomably easier to do things like draft emails, do text editing and other basics, than my phone is.

that has to look hilarious in the grocery store, I just have to say

I need to get a replacement battery for mine after it drained too deeply and no longer will charge :( They didn't push out some kind of fix for that, did they?

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#294

Post by ghaff »

makeitdouble wrote: post #289
ghaff wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an iPad that’s about to go out of support and is starting to get some small cracks in a screen corner. Seriously wondering if I should replace it or just take an older, albeit heavier, MacBook for extended travel. I don’t find myself using it at home much and media consumption on planes isn’t that important to me any longer.

I tried an older macbook for a while, and it was kinda frustrating on two fronts: - reading is subpar Having the ipad in portrait helped a lot for reading A4 size documents, where I'd be much more scrolling on the macbook. The the form factor plays a lot when you're checking documents at an airport counter, reviewing your hotel reservation in a taxi, or looking at a map with others. - I had to baby it a lot more iPad…

That’s all fair. For now I have an out of support mini Chromebook I can throw in my luggage in addition to a tablet. Bad I know. Maybe I should get a new one—it’s cheap—and nurse my old tablet. I just try to avoid hauling too many electronics.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#295

Post by nottheengineer »

I find text editing on mobile to be fine, I'd have to try this to see if it's any better.

The article did skip over one important QOL feature that every modern keyboard has: Swiping the spacebar to move the cursor. It solves a lot of the things the author complains about.

The thing that causes me physical pain when writing something on mobile is the web. Browsers/websites misinterpret inputs into text fields all the time. Trying to scroll the text field while it has an active selection? Great, now your keyboard is closed and the selection is gone.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#296

Post by functoid »

ghaff wrote: post #184
plaidfuji wrote: post #57

1000% agree with this post, wow. I can’t believe this is controversial.. it’s a disaster. I dread opening the mobile version of google docs, sheets, or even Notes for anything more than a grocery list. The problem is the target audience for this is business customers, and particularly those in management, so it’s a small market. ICs aren’t up and down as much between meetings and can largely stick to their desktop se…

I generally agree and also disagree with a few aspects of both your comment and the OP. First of all, to the OP, maybe not for the leet kids, but I absolutely find large amounts of text input on a phone to be a pain. I can do it if I’m away from a computer and have to, but I don’t enjoy it and it takes more time and requires a lot of concentration. As for cursor positioning, holding down the space bar on iOS works pr…

> As for cursor positioning, holding down the space bar on iOS works pretty well—although it took me a few years to learn about it.

It’s great until you need to move the cursor downward. Being completely undiscoverable doesn’t help.

Maybe we need something like the old thinkpad nub on touchscreen keyboards.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#297

Post by teddyh »

gochi wrote: post #288
teddyh wrote: post #277

> While we should always take care of novice users first, we shouldn’t ignore proficient users. I believe that the relation should be reversed : Make the best system possible, usable by well-trained users, and only then add easy modes, tutorials, child safe modes, etc. with paths for improvement at every level. But when using modern systems, I often feel like I’m reduced to using Fisher-Price toys with one (inoperati…

You've made the experience more tedious to create now. If we adhere to the article's advice, you work from the novice upwards. You create more and more freedom as you go up, you also have an easier time catching problems between levels this way. In your proposal, we're expected to start from the top magically creating the best experience, and then jumping back down to novice users, and then scaling up back towards ex…

Creating a good system for advanced users is not magic.

In practice, what tends to happen (when things go well, that is) is that people follow the same course as Douglas Engelbart’s development of the NLS system, which he called “bootstrapping”, and which we today might call “agile” or possibly “devops”. I.e. the initial users are using the system from day 1, and developers are constantly giving users more options and features to aid the users, and since the developers are either in close cooperation with the users, or the groups simply overlap, the finished system (that is, when it starts to change more slowly) is one in which the system is quite complex, but all users are also advanced users who can use it at high speed to tremendous advantage.

This is the point at which you should go back and add intermediate levels, tutorials, easy modes, child proofing, etc.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#298

Post by ghaff »

ako wrote: post #291
ghaff wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be honest, I haven’t even been able to make a tablet really work for me as a serious laptop replacement for any halfway serious office productivity work. Except for a very short trip I bring a laptop because otherwise I’ll run into something I have trouble doing that I need to do.

True, but i feel the same way about laptops. For true productivity i need at least one big display, so will usually dock it with an external display, keyboard and mouse. Funny thing is that the modern iPads connected to an external display gives more or less the same experience as a laptop (as long as you're not programming...)

I have a multi-display desktop. I accept I’m not going to have full capabilities if I’m not at home. For travel an external display on an iPad is a nonstarter.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#299

Post by jonplackett »

happymellon wrote: post #263
JamesLeonis wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s just not your typical consumer. My only disagreement. I think many people don't know they want something better because they've never used something better. The video in the link describes how the users do short texts to get around the problem [0], including deleting whole blocks of text instead of editing. Teenagers, parents, and many others communicate heavily through texts and are often "up and down" like m…

I miss my Blackberry for typing. The tactile feedback of real keys was so much better than haptic screens.

Yes, a big part of the problem is that so so many words need editing.

I updated to ios17 excited about the new transformer model, and it still predicts absolute BS words I’ve never used in my life.

I definitely remember typing working better on my iPhone 5 which was 20% smaller so I don’t know what’s gone wrong, but it’s gone really wrong and the fixes also suck.

Re: Text editing on mobile: the invisible problem

#300

Post by dan-robertson »

plaidfuji wrote: post #57

1000% agree with this post, wow. I can’t believe this is controversial.. it’s a disaster. I dread opening the mobile version of google docs, sheets, or even Notes for anything more than a grocery list. The problem is the target audience for this is business customers, and particularly those in management, so it’s a small market. ICs aren’t up and down as much between meetings and can largely stick to their desktop se…

I don’t understand why a tablet requires lugging a briefcase around? Just carry it raw between meetings and put it down if you need two hands for something. If you already carry papers around, get a folding keyboard case. Maybe we’re just thinking of different working environments and I’m imagining an office whereas you’re imagining a job site or something.

The actual reason that a tablet isn’t the answer is that the Google docs app for iPads is incredibly bad (I’ve had one second per letter max typing speeds with it, though thankfully it buffered my key presses). And then the solution kinda sucks because you would want a light laptop (eg MacBook Air or windows equivalent) but closing the lid will add too large a delay so you’ll need to carry it around half-open, which isn’t great but also isn’t lugging around a briefcase.

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